Sean Lee of Toronto Canada is not just a great player, he's a super nice guy. (Of course-he's from Canada!) Sean generously spent time talking with us at the Great Lakes Classic in Lansing, Michigan.
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[00:00:01] The following is a presentation of Foosball Radio. Foosball Radio, On the Road.
[00:00:13] And we are live once again with Foosball Radio On the Road from the Great Lakes Classic in Lansing, Michigan.
[00:00:21] What a weekend. I keep saying the same phrase every time. What a weekend.
[00:00:24] But I can't find another phrase to use. We could say amazing weekend. We could say phenomenal.
[00:00:31] But phenomenal. Yeah, that'll work. Yeah.
[00:00:34] So it's even better, though, because I get a chance to hang out with, well, I would say,
[00:00:41] someone who's well known among the Foosball illiterate, if I...
[00:00:49] I want to welcome Sean to the show. Sean, you're from Toronto, correct?
[00:00:54] I am.
[00:00:55] And have you always lived in Toronto?
[00:00:58] Pretty much my whole life. I was born in Korea. Moved to Toronto with my family when I was about five or six years old.
[00:01:06] Gotcha.
[00:01:07] Did four years in Montreal for school, but the rest... Oh, sorry.
[00:01:11] And then also four years in Hong Kong, which is where I first started Tornado.
[00:01:15] But the rest of the time, which is a long time in Toronto, yeah.
[00:01:18] And this weekend, you've been competing pretty strong. Just give us a quick overview of what's happening with Open Devils.
[00:01:28] So Open Devils, unfortunately, it has come to a close.
[00:01:32] Okay.
[00:01:32] However, my partner, New Tran and I, and New played great. He carried me for most of those matches.
[00:01:38] We ended up playing in the finals, and we lost, I'd like to say, a close match.
[00:01:46] I mean, the games are close, but there were only three of them in a 3-5.
[00:01:50] Gotcha.
[00:01:51] Brandon Munoz and Mike Yor were just like, you know, they're pretty dominant.
[00:01:55] That's true.
[00:01:56] They beat us pretty good.
[00:01:56] Yeah.
[00:01:57] Well, it's still an all. To get to that level, how long have you been playing Foosball exactly?
[00:02:04] Competitively since 2003.
[00:02:06] Really? Okay.
[00:02:07] For a long time. I mean, I think Vegas 2003 might have been like my first event.
[00:02:11] Got it. Got it.
[00:02:13] Yeah, it took maybe five years off to have, you know, like take a break, have kids.
[00:02:17] Well, there's always that.
[00:02:19] Yeah, yeah. But it's, you know, happy to, yeah, like it's just been such a great kind of journey.
[00:02:26] Right?
[00:02:26] So many different people, so many great relationships.
[00:02:29] Right.
[00:02:30] Everywhere you go, you know, there's someone who's going to welcome you and hang out with you.
[00:02:34] And I keep hearing the same thing over and over again about foosball in general as a family.
[00:02:40] Yeah.
[00:02:41] So you travel to Michigan State or the Great Lakes Classic and you run it to people that you know.
[00:02:47] Absolutely.
[00:02:48] Yeah.
[00:02:50] And then you have people you know and then people who just treat you so great.
[00:02:55] And I want to give a huge shout out to Mike Stull.
[00:02:57] Yes.
[00:02:58] This tournament just gets better and better all the time.
[00:03:01] It does.
[00:03:01] The location, the organization.
[00:03:03] Like you can tell he doesn't, he's not doing anything halfway.
[00:03:07] Right.
[00:03:08] Exactly.
[00:03:08] He's really thinking of all the details.
[00:03:10] He really understands from the player's perspective what makes a good tournament.
[00:03:15] Absolutely.
[00:03:16] And that's interesting because tournaments have always been about the players,
[00:03:20] although I think probably in the 70s and 80s, it was more about the manufacturers of tables back in the day.
[00:03:28] But it seems we're now in the dawn of a new era for 2025 because of the World Feesball Tour
[00:03:36] and Ryan Moore taking over from his mom.
[00:03:39] Yeah.
[00:03:40] That's big news.
[00:03:40] How is that affecting you guys in Canada?
[00:03:43] Okay.
[00:03:44] Okay.
[00:03:44] So honestly, we didn't even, like some of us who didn't go to Worlds didn't get the news right away.
[00:03:52] Gotcha.
[00:03:52] But when we all heard it, it was like, wow, that's quite a major change.
[00:03:58] Like Mary's been amazing for so many years.
[00:04:01] You know, there was a time where I'm sure you remember where it looked like the scene was, you know, kind of on life support.
[00:04:07] Yes.
[00:04:08] And she, you know, again, with a lot of hard work and, you know, and time and effort, you know, as part of to where it is now.
[00:04:16] Yeah.
[00:04:17] And then, and so I actually didn't, you know, really hear like firsthand what, you know, their reasoning or, you know, or how they announced it.
[00:04:25] But I could definitely see like Ryan, you know, he's, you know, another generation, right?
[00:04:31] There you go.
[00:04:32] And, you know, different things, different ideas, I'm sure, and different innovations.
[00:04:36] Plus he's, I mean, he's got the younger energy.
[00:04:38] Yeah.
[00:04:39] Yeah.
[00:04:39] And he's also a top, top pro master.
[00:04:42] One of the best players ever.
[00:04:43] So.
[00:04:44] Yeah.
[00:04:44] I think, in fact, when we had it, we had a chat at the Tornado Championships when they first announced it.
[00:04:51] And he mentioned that he has a four phase plan.
[00:04:54] Oh.
[00:04:55] Phase one is taking care of the pros and the pro masters.
[00:04:58] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:59] So that to me is like a, okay, that's coming from a player's perspective yet again.
[00:05:05] Right.
[00:05:06] And he wants to make it more attractive to become a pro and become a pro master and to stay in it.
[00:05:11] So that makes so much sense.
[00:05:13] And I remember having a similar conversation with someone years ago.
[00:05:17] There was a number of pros who turned master and stopped playing.
[00:05:21] Yes.
[00:05:22] And I just thought, you know what, it's kind of a shame where you have some people who invest all that time, like years of effort.
[00:05:29] They achieve a certain status.
[00:05:31] Right.
[00:05:31] And then they feel like, okay, I mean, maybe it doesn't make sense and maybe they walk away.
[00:05:36] But then all that knowledge and experience is walking away and the relationships is walking away with them as well.
[00:05:41] Yeah.
[00:05:41] I mean, it diminishes the sport.
[00:05:43] Yeah.
[00:05:44] You know, when that happens.
[00:05:45] We have a pro master in our area in Albany, New York, who had played from the time he was 15 years old and developed into a pro master.
[00:05:54] And as soon as he turned pro master, it was kind of like, I'm done.
[00:05:58] Right.
[00:05:59] You know?
[00:05:59] Yeah.
[00:06:00] I mean, he had children, of course, a life that he needed to get back to.
[00:06:03] But at the same time, it really wasn't worth his while.
[00:06:06] Yeah.
[00:06:07] Because you, at that, especially at that stage in your life, you're sacrificing a lot of non-foosball stuff.
[00:06:12] Right.
[00:06:12] Exactly.
[00:06:13] So hopefully with 2025, we'll see a change.
[00:06:18] Yeah.
[00:06:19] And so I'm going to take that as a segue where I know we mentioned earlier that in Toronto, we recently,
[00:06:26] actually not recently, it's like two and a half years now.
[00:06:28] Yes.
[00:06:29] We have our own location.
[00:06:30] So not just like a foosball club.
[00:06:31] Right.
[00:06:32] But a physical location.
[00:06:33] So let's talk about that for sure.
[00:06:35] Yeah.
[00:06:36] What's the formal name of the location?
[00:06:37] It's called the Toronto Foosball Club.
[00:06:40] Yes.
[00:06:41] Make it clear to everyone exactly what it is.
[00:06:45] And the only hesitation was that TFC, we also have a Toronto Football Club, which is a pro soccer team.
[00:06:57] So you can't really say TFC unless you make it clear.
[00:07:00] But that's our name.
[00:07:01] Yeah.
[00:07:01] Yeah.
[00:07:02] I mean, that's understandable.
[00:07:03] So what's the physical location like?
[00:07:06] So it's two, we've got two floors.
[00:07:09] Okay.
[00:07:09] It's in a, it's actually just off the major highway.
[00:07:12] It's a little bit west of downtown.
[00:07:14] Okay.
[00:07:15] It's actually halfway to the airport.
[00:07:16] So anyone traveling in and out of Toronto, it's like an easy stop.
[00:07:20] Really?
[00:07:21] Yeah.
[00:07:22] And it's like, you know, it's on a main street in a strip mall.
[00:07:27] Okay.
[00:07:28] And there's, it's quite a, like a, you know, like a diverse area.
[00:07:31] There's a really big movie theater across the street.
[00:07:34] So there's always like parking as well.
[00:07:36] And alternative things to do if there's a tournament?
[00:07:39] Absolutely.
[00:07:40] Sometimes like, you know, wives and kids will watch a movie while someone else is competing.
[00:07:43] Right.
[00:07:44] Right.
[00:07:44] Wow.
[00:07:45] That's exciting.
[00:07:46] So how did this come about?
[00:07:47] What started that?
[00:07:49] Great question.
[00:07:50] So I think like a lot of people and probably all over the world, there must've been times
[00:07:55] when, you know, you think, geez, you know, like, yeah, this bar or this, whatever location
[00:07:59] is okay.
[00:08:00] But, you know, foosball is not the priority.
[00:08:02] You know, the bars are always trying to sell drinks up, you know, obviously that's their
[00:08:06] business.
[00:08:06] Sure.
[00:08:07] You know, and, and other locations are, there are competing interests.
[00:08:11] And so it was kind of a dream, you know, but it really never made any kind of financial
[00:08:16] sense.
[00:08:17] Got it.
[00:08:18] Yeah.
[00:08:18] Yeah.
[00:08:19] Now this is, now COVID of course, in many ways, it was a very difficult, challenging
[00:08:23] time.
[00:08:24] One thing it did is reduce the rents.
[00:08:27] Okay.
[00:08:27] And it gave us an opportunity to, um, to actually find a location at a lease rate, which was,
[00:08:33] you know, somewhat feasible.
[00:08:34] Yeah.
[00:08:35] Dan Packer, who I know, you know.
[00:08:37] Yes.
[00:08:38] Great guy.
[00:08:38] Yeah.
[00:08:38] Yeah.
[00:08:38] He actually had been looking for locations for probably like at least a couple of years.
[00:08:42] No kidding.
[00:08:43] Yeah.
[00:08:43] He found this one and, uh, we kind of jumped on it.
[00:08:47] Um, and it's, it's worked out great.
[00:08:50] Uh, yeah.
[00:08:50] Yeah.
[00:08:51] Yeah.
[00:08:51] Yeah.
[00:08:51] So as, as, as I recall, according to what Dan was saying, now you have tables for sale
[00:08:57] in that location.
[00:08:58] Yeah.
[00:08:59] That's right.
[00:08:59] So Dan and, uh, Cam Burrows, um, they have Canada Foosball Shop, which is an online business
[00:09:06] and they sell everything foosball related.
[00:09:08] Right.
[00:09:08] Especially in Canada, you know, like there's, um, like they're kind of like, you know, the
[00:09:12] place you're going to go to get anything.
[00:09:14] Understood.
[00:09:15] Um, and, uh, so it also kind of doubles then as not only the foosball club, but like a showroom
[00:09:21] for their, their table.
[00:09:24] Yeah.
[00:09:24] Yeah.
[00:09:24] And we benefit because they'll also sell some of the tables right off the showroom and they'll
[00:09:30] be replaced with new tables.
[00:09:31] So it's great for the club.
[00:09:32] Always a rotation.
[00:09:33] Absolutely.
[00:09:34] So anyone coming to the club can expect like good tables, new tables, good environment.
[00:09:39] What a great idea.
[00:09:40] Yeah.
[00:09:40] Great idea.
[00:09:42] So Cam Burrows, uh, who runs original Leonhardt-usa.com is one of our sponsors for Foos Talk
[00:09:50] Live and Foosball Radio.
[00:09:51] Yes.
[00:09:51] I see their great commercials running quite often.
[00:09:54] Right.
[00:09:54] Right.
[00:09:54] Right.
[00:09:54] And, uh, I gotta say Cam is, is such a go-getter.
[00:09:58] Yeah.
[00:09:58] Such a smart guy.
[00:09:59] Great guy too.
[00:10:00] We, we love having him on board.
[00:10:02] Mm-hmm.
[00:10:02] You know, it's a, it's a great compliment to us to, to have us, you know, sponsor him.
[00:10:07] Yeah.
[00:10:07] So it's great.
[00:10:07] And of course it benefits, again, you know, Canadian foosball, that kind of thing.
[00:10:12] So we're, we're happy to be on board with that.
[00:10:14] Um, here's the thing from what I still, and I understand too, when Dan was talking to us
[00:10:19] that there's a way to play in, in, uh, in the shop.
[00:10:23] Um, 24 to seven.
[00:10:25] Is that true?
[00:10:26] Absolutely.
[00:10:26] Absolutely.
[00:10:27] So all of our members, um, the, you download an app.
[00:10:31] Yep.
[00:10:31] And you get to the front door and you just check in, door opens, like it unlocks.
[00:10:36] You just push it and you're in.
[00:10:38] That's heaven.
[00:10:39] So we've got people that they'll come, you know, with their laptops and work during the
[00:10:42] day, like a cafe.
[00:10:43] Yeah.
[00:10:44] Others that they might finish a late shift and come in just to practice.
[00:10:47] Wow.
[00:10:48] Right.
[00:10:49] Um, we, yeah, it's, uh, I've got to say that the technology that, uh, we put in place,
[00:10:53] uh, it's, it's really quite good.
[00:10:56] So like a lot of amenities and, and, you know, like any member can, can play their music, you
[00:11:01] know, over, over wifi.
[00:11:03] Now that's what that we're talking about.
[00:11:05] Yeah.
[00:11:05] That's the real deal right there for sure.
[00:11:07] Um, so here's the thing about, about, about that.
[00:11:12] Are there training classes offered to the public?
[00:11:16] Uh, yes, there are.
[00:11:17] Um, and, uh, we also have, so depending on the tier of membership, some level of training
[00:11:24] is already included.
[00:11:25] Oh, nice.
[00:11:26] Um, and, uh, but because there's opportunities just to like ask questions from other players,
[00:11:32] um, you know, the more informal stuff, like that's more common.
[00:11:35] Yep.
[00:11:36] And then for like, we have a, like another lounge chat, like a WhatsApp chat or, or emails
[00:11:40] for just like, you know, people who haven't visited the club yet.
[00:11:43] Got it.
[00:11:43] And people like New Tran, for example, like my partner here this weekend, he'll send a message
[00:11:48] saying, Hey, free foosball lessons for anyone interested from tomorrow for these two hours.
[00:11:52] Wow.
[00:11:52] Right.
[00:11:53] And, and stuff like that, you know, really helps grow the scene.
[00:11:55] So have you seen a, a, a burgeoning population who will come to your, to your, uh, location
[00:12:02] and say, what is this all about?
[00:12:05] Absolutely.
[00:12:06] Yeah.
[00:12:06] Yeah.
[00:12:07] It's, uh, especially, um, you know, like brand new players or players who, you know, of course
[00:12:13] played a little bit maybe in college or in their workplace.
[00:12:17] Um, but you know, I have no idea what, what's possible and the scene that's out there.
[00:12:21] Yeah.
[00:12:22] No kidding.
[00:12:23] Yeah.
[00:12:23] So they'll come out, we run, you know, like DYPs a couple days a week.
[00:12:26] Nice.
[00:12:27] Uh, we also have a league going in the league.
[00:12:29] I'm sure like, as you know, like they're great for people who are new.
[00:12:33] Oh yeah.
[00:12:34] Um, and each team has at least one pro and, you know, they'll help mentor the newer players.
[00:12:38] Um, so that's been really effective too.
[00:12:41] Oh, fantastic.
[00:12:42] Um, yeah.
[00:12:42] And I, and I will say that in terms of, you know, like improvement, like in the last two
[00:12:46] and a half years, you definitely can tell who's been going to the club a lot.
[00:12:51] And like the rookies and amateurs, uh, some of these guys have been doing damage at the
[00:12:57] IP events.
[00:12:57] Oh yeah.
[00:12:58] Um, we've had some kind of like, you know, guys that were like experts for many years
[00:13:02] and, uh, some of them have, you know, like now they're pros, right?
[00:13:06] Uh huh.
[00:13:07] Uh, even like, uh, you know, we had guys like multiple, you know, top masters, uh, uh, you
[00:13:14] know, in the IP circuit have lost to more Toronto Foosball Club members in the last few years
[00:13:22] than probably the five years before that or 10 years before that.
[00:13:26] That's saying something right there.
[00:13:27] Yeah.
[00:13:27] That's, that's truly a proof positive of the concept.
[00:13:31] Yeah.
[00:13:32] And that that's something that makes a difference in somebody's game to go to a place on a
[00:13:36] regular basis, play league, DYP and get lessons.
[00:13:40] Yeah.
[00:13:41] That's, that's the total package.
[00:13:43] It, yeah.
[00:13:44] Thank you.
[00:13:44] Like that's exactly what we planned and hoped for.
[00:13:48] Yeah.
[00:13:48] That's, that's brilliant.
[00:13:49] I, I really, really wish in this country there could be some kind of a concept like that.
[00:13:54] Uh huh.
[00:13:55] Maybe in a, I don't know, a limited franchise basis.
[00:13:58] Yeah.
[00:13:59] Yeah.
[00:13:59] You know, we open centers like that across the country.
[00:14:02] I mean, obviously there's a lot of, uh, capital involved.
[00:14:06] Yes.
[00:14:06] There were quite a bit of startup just to make it, cause we wanted to, you know, obviously
[00:14:10] a certain level of, uh, you know, you want a good environment, just like running a tournament.
[00:14:14] Sure.
[00:14:15] Right.
[00:14:15] You, you have to factor in a bunch of things.
[00:14:17] And somebody has got to be committed to being there often enough to make sure that it's,
[00:14:21] that's operating properly.
[00:14:22] And that's right.
[00:14:23] And, and I'll be honest, that's been one of our challenges where we're all volunteers.
[00:14:27] It's all, it's a nonprofit.
[00:14:28] Yes.
[00:14:29] Um, and we all have our own jobs and lives and often family or elders to take care of.
[00:14:34] Oh, sure.
[00:14:35] So yeah, there's like an, you know, operational stuff, there's marketing stuff, like all kinds
[00:14:39] of things that we could be doing a better job at if we had more time and resources.
[00:14:44] Okay.
[00:14:45] So we're still figuring out that part of it.
[00:14:47] Um, we've got, uh, some members actually recently, like, uh, like Mike Wynn from Toronto,
[00:14:52] who's actually going to help us out more with the marketing part of it.
[00:14:56] Cool.
[00:14:57] Um, and then, you know, but, but we have everyone trying to pitch in, right?
[00:15:00] Like you could name, you know, anyone, you know, from the Toronto foosball scene and
[00:15:05] they're probably, they've probably contributed in some way to the club and, you know, like
[00:15:10] takes a village to raise a child and takes a village to run a foosball club.
[00:15:14] I love that.
[00:15:15] That sounds like a really good slug line for some advertising.
[00:15:19] Yeah.
[00:15:19] It's, uh, I've been writing advertising commercial ads, uh, as a professional for about 40 years.
[00:15:25] And, uh, it's something that you always want to find that phrase that people never forget.
[00:15:30] Yeah.
[00:15:30] So that would be one of them right there.
[00:15:32] Thank you.
[00:15:33] I've never said that before either.
[00:15:34] So you, you inspired me to, uh, to come up with that.
[00:15:37] Let me write that down.
[00:15:37] Let me get a pen.
[00:15:38] No, it's, it's, uh, it's funny because marketing is, is really most of the game.
[00:15:44] Yeah.
[00:15:44] How much?
[00:15:45] And now of course with social media, it's a whole new realm of reaching out to people
[00:15:50] that you ordinarily would not be able to reach.
[00:15:52] Yeah.
[00:15:53] Yeah.
[00:15:54] So now do you have a website?
[00:15:56] We do.
[00:15:57] Uh, torontofoosballclub.ca.
[00:15:59] Okay.
[00:15:59] Uh, and I'll say like, you know, I think we've done a pretty good job.
[00:16:03] Uh, and then recently we, uh, for the basement, which is more like a loungy kind of, uh, uh,
[00:16:09] set up.
[00:16:09] Yes.
[00:16:09] Uh, the idea is like, it's great for private parties.
[00:16:12] Um, but it's set up to also be, uh, rentable by the hour.
[00:16:16] Nice.
[00:16:17] Um, so, you know, like, um, obviously you've got foosball players in our community who want
[00:16:21] to play with each other, but others that just want to come in and play with their four or
[00:16:25] five friends.
[00:16:26] Uh, so, you know, for a small hourly fee, you could just book that even on our website.
[00:16:30] That's so incredible.
[00:16:31] So incredible.
[00:16:32] It's more I hear about it, the more I, I envy you.
[00:16:35] First of all, that's, that's number one, but we'd love to duplicate something like
[00:16:39] that, you know, elsewhere.
[00:16:42] Yeah.
[00:16:42] We had thought about it.
[00:16:43] Like, I mean, we'd been thinking about in Canada a little bit and I know Will Strengths
[00:16:47] in Edmonton, uh, I think he's starting something.
[00:16:50] I don't know too many of the details, but I think something's there, but we have been
[00:16:53] thinking, yeah, like if you had something like in Montreal and Vancouver and Edmonton
[00:16:57] and so on, and it'd be like one membership and you get reciprocal benefits to another club
[00:17:02] when you go there.
[00:17:03] Right.
[00:17:03] How cool would that be?
[00:17:04] Oh, fantastic.
[00:17:06] It's, um, it's the kind of thing that I think if I, if you look at the future of foosball,
[00:17:13] the things that have been missing in the past, it looks like they're coming together in a
[00:17:17] way.
[00:17:18] Um, just give you an example, the media coverage at this tournament, this weekend, modern
[00:17:22] foosball.
[00:17:23] What do you think of that?
[00:17:24] First of all, what do you think of their, their, their streaming?
[00:17:27] It's amazing.
[00:17:27] I was talking to Clay and Adam earlier, like the, just how they continue to evolve.
[00:17:34] Yes.
[00:17:34] Not just the, like, like the video obviously, and now the audio, like with the semifinals
[00:17:39] we played.
[00:17:40] Right.
[00:17:40] I was mic'd up for the first time in a, you know, in a baseball game I ever played.
[00:17:44] Got to hold your, hold your tongue a little bit.
[00:17:46] A little bit.
[00:17:47] You know, fortunately it was only during the timeouts, I think.
[00:17:50] Okay.
[00:17:50] But, uh, but I was thinking, you know, reminded me of that naked gun, uh, movie where the
[00:17:54] guy finishes his press conference and goes to the urinal with the hot mic.
[00:17:58] Um, but that's such a great concept, right?
[00:18:01] Oh yeah.
[00:18:02] Like.
[00:18:02] It really is.
[00:18:03] Yeah.
[00:18:03] This presentation now is on par with like a, a mate, you know, with any pro sport with
[00:18:08] that's like.
[00:18:09] Exactly.
[00:18:09] Big budget.
[00:18:10] Exactly right.
[00:18:11] So that it's, that's the forward facing part of, of the sport of foosball for the public,
[00:18:18] the general public, they get a chance to see that.
[00:18:21] Yeah.
[00:18:21] And suddenly, wow, it's a sport.
[00:18:25] Yeah.
[00:18:25] Really?
[00:18:26] With great commentary with stats that are evolving all the time too.
[00:18:29] Yep.
[00:18:30] Exactly right.
[00:18:31] There's, and there's always room for improvement obviously, but it's, it's, yeah, that's the
[00:18:35] model right there.
[00:18:36] Yeah.
[00:18:36] No, it's, it's brilliant.
[00:18:38] And eventually maybe have your, your logo for the Toronto Foosball Club right up there on
[00:18:45] the, on the screen.
[00:18:46] Yeah.
[00:18:48] For a nominal fee.
[00:18:49] That, of course.
[00:18:50] Sounds great.
[00:18:51] I mean, it's marketing.
[00:18:53] Yeah.
[00:18:53] It's, but yeah, that's, that's the forward facing aspect of what we have to do as a sport.
[00:18:59] We need to get people to watch.
[00:19:01] Yeah.
[00:19:02] You know, non-foosball players, you think they look, especially in person when they see
[00:19:07] a pro or pros on a table playing, they kind of go, oh, that's nice.
[00:19:13] And they walk away because they realize, oh my God, that's just so, how could I, no one
[00:19:18] could ever do that.
[00:19:18] Yeah.
[00:19:20] But if you put it more in a, in a place where they can sit and not be intimidated, but watch
[00:19:25] the action.
[00:19:25] Yeah.
[00:19:25] Yeah.
[00:19:26] And understand the story.
[00:19:27] Yeah.
[00:19:28] Go on a TV screen or on their phone or whatever they're watching on.
[00:19:31] Mm-hmm.
[00:19:32] That draws them in.
[00:19:34] A hundred percent.
[00:19:35] Right?
[00:19:36] Yeah.
[00:19:36] And then if there's, especially like a, a story they can understand as well, you know.
[00:19:41] Yes.
[00:19:41] Yeah.
[00:19:41] We need WWF back.
[00:19:45] It's, I mean, it's, it is, it is good though, because I think that's the next phase is to,
[00:19:49] let's talk about the players.
[00:19:50] Who are they?
[00:19:50] Where are they from?
[00:19:51] What's, what's, what's their, what's their favorite color?
[00:19:55] Yeah.
[00:19:55] No?
[00:19:55] Yeah.
[00:19:56] What's their, for example, anyone who knows myself and New Trend, whenever we go to a
[00:20:01] foosball tournament, we are convinced that if we have pho, which is Vietnamese noodle
[00:20:07] soup.
[00:20:08] Nice.
[00:20:08] If we have it that weekend, we are guaranteed some level of success.
[00:20:12] And then if we don't, so it's like, it's kind of like a superstition, but we have told
[00:20:17] so many people and others have also jumped on.
[00:20:20] Really?
[00:20:21] So that, I'm pretty sure that started with our Toronto foosball scene.
[00:20:24] So what, what is in that soup?
[00:20:27] It's mostly a beef broth.
[00:20:30] Okay.
[00:20:30] And, you know, rice noodles and then your choice of different meats.
[00:20:35] Ah.
[00:20:35] It's kind of like pizza.
[00:20:36] You can choose the meats you want to go in there.
[00:20:38] And what's your choice?
[00:20:40] I generally like the, there's always one that has everything.
[00:20:43] Okay.
[00:20:44] So I'll just get that one.
[00:20:45] And it literally have like six different kinds of meat, mostly beef or it all.
[00:20:49] There's also chicken ones, but the beef ones are at least a traditional one.
[00:20:53] But that gets you going.
[00:20:55] Gets me going.
[00:20:56] You know, like, and you know, these, the other thing is these trips, like you're, you're,
[00:21:02] you're going through like different times where you're tired.
[00:21:05] Yeah.
[00:21:05] Where you're exposed to many different things in the air.
[00:21:08] Yep.
[00:21:08] Right.
[00:21:08] Having that, that hot soup, you know, like I feel like it kind of is a healthy thing for
[00:21:13] you as well.
[00:21:14] Yeah.
[00:21:14] Yeah.
[00:21:14] Yeah.
[00:21:16] This last, this weekend I've had laryngitis and I did find a, a quote unquote, not a cure,
[00:21:22] but something that helped called the medicine ball.
[00:21:26] Okay.
[00:21:26] I've heard of it, but I don't know what that is.
[00:21:28] You get it at Starbucks and it's a citrus tea with mint, ginger, honey, and lemon.
[00:21:36] Oh, which is, yeah.
[00:21:37] When I'm sick, that's what I make myself.
[00:21:40] Exactly.
[00:21:41] And it just opens up the vocal cords a bit, relaxes and kind of eases the congestion.
[00:21:45] Yeah.
[00:21:46] I can't drink it 24 seven sadly, but when I do, it does make a big difference.
[00:21:51] Yeah.
[00:21:51] Yeah.
[00:21:51] And even if you believe that it will, that's part of it, right?
[00:21:55] Great marketing.
[00:21:56] Yeah.
[00:21:56] You believe it.
[00:21:58] No, it's, um, so now I want to switch gears here because this is your first time on
[00:22:02] Foos Talk Live, Foosball Radio.
[00:22:04] Yeah.
[00:22:04] Um, it's tradition.
[00:22:08] How old were you when you first saw a foosball table?
[00:22:11] What kind of table was it?
[00:22:12] And how long did it take you to finally get into competition?
[00:22:16] Okay.
[00:22:16] So, I mean, I'm a, I'm an older guy.
[00:22:19] Um, so when I say it was high school, that was quite a long time ago.
[00:22:23] Okay.
[00:22:23] In Toronto, uh, if anyone who knows Toronto, like there's traditionally and still is a
[00:22:28] very large Italian population.
[00:22:30] Okay.
[00:22:30] So my high school was like at least 70% Italian.
[00:22:33] Gotcha.
[00:22:34] Um, so, and you know, Jatoni, like foosball is, is kind of a big thing.
[00:22:40] Like there were a couple of bars and even a convenience store across the street.
[00:22:44] My high school is called York Memorial and, uh, lunchtime after school, we'd go there,
[00:22:49] you know, kind of had to, especially if you wanted some credibility within the, you
[00:22:52] know, within the high school.
[00:22:53] Yeah, in the community.
[00:22:54] Uh, yeah.
[00:22:55] Yeah.
[00:22:55] And so Italian, kind of like a, so the table name is Fabi.
[00:22:59] Fabi.
[00:22:59] Have you ever heard of that?
[00:23:00] Fabi?
[00:23:01] Not sure.
[00:23:06] Oh, cool.
[00:23:07] That's good recognition.
[00:23:09] That's awesome.
[00:23:10] Um, no, so, so Fabi, that's the name of the table.
[00:23:13] Yeah.
[00:23:14] So it's basically like, uh, like a Roberto Sport or Garlando.
[00:23:17] Yes.
[00:23:18] But it's, um, completely geared to fastball.
[00:23:22] Oh.
[00:23:23] Is this where they never stop the ball?
[00:23:25] Correct.
[00:23:25] Yeah.
[00:23:26] And you can't pass on the same rod.
[00:23:28] You can only pass from rod to rod.
[00:23:30] And, uh, and you really, there was a couple of different styles of fastball.
[00:23:35] Um, but that one we were playing was, uh, you basically like, if you hesitated for more
[00:23:40] than a half second on any rod at any time, people would start yelling at you or like shaking
[00:23:45] the table.
[00:23:46] Not like tornado.
[00:23:47] Not like tornado.
[00:23:48] You have 15 seconds to sit there.
[00:23:49] That's right.
[00:23:50] No, no.
[00:23:51] Yeah.
[00:23:51] You couldn't even do three.
[00:23:52] Like people would literally start like shaking the table and saying, get this going.
[00:23:56] Right.
[00:23:57] So it was basically, it was great for, uh, for fun.
[00:23:59] Jarring is fair.
[00:24:00] Sorry?
[00:24:00] Jarring is fair.
[00:24:01] Yeah.
[00:24:02] Yeah.
[00:24:02] Pretty much.
[00:24:03] Because they, you want the randomness.
[00:24:05] Like you don't want a level table.
[00:24:06] You don't want a ball that rolls through.
[00:24:08] You want randomness.
[00:24:09] And then it's all about angles and reflexes.
[00:24:12] Okay.
[00:24:13] Um, yeah.
[00:24:14] So that was high school and it wasn't until like 10 years, 12 years later, um, where I
[00:24:21] went to Hong Kong for work.
[00:24:22] Okay.
[00:24:23] And in Hong Kong, uh, I found, uh, one bar called Mahama Mama's.
[00:24:28] Uh, and there was a lot of expats and there was one really old tornado table with marbles
[00:24:35] for balls.
[00:24:37] Tornado.
[00:24:38] Yeah.
[00:24:38] Yeah.
[00:24:39] And me and my Italian friend had heard about this monthly tournament they have there.
[00:24:43] Okay.
[00:24:44] And we went there and told everyone else that they were cheating because they were taking
[00:24:50] their time and passing on the same ride.
[00:24:53] Oh no.
[00:24:54] Yeah.
[00:24:54] It was only at that time did I realize, wow, the rest of the world actually passes.
[00:24:59] Yeah.
[00:25:00] Right.
[00:25:00] And sits on the ball.
[00:25:02] Yeah.
[00:25:03] Isn't that interesting though?
[00:25:04] So, I mean, it's a, it's a cultural difference as well as a table difference.
[00:25:08] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:08] Isn't that wild?
[00:25:09] Yeah.
[00:25:10] Wow.
[00:25:10] Wow.
[00:25:11] So, you found tornado.
[00:25:13] Finally found tornado.
[00:25:14] Uh, was in Hong Kong for a few years and then when I went back to Toronto in about 2002.
[00:25:20] Okay.
[00:25:20] Maybe 2003.
[00:25:22] It just happened to coincide with the year that Valley, uh, started promoting tornado in
[00:25:28] Toronto.
[00:25:29] Okay.
[00:25:30] And they started a league in Toronto that same summer I returned.
[00:25:33] Fantastic.
[00:25:33] And I joined the league.
[00:25:34] Yeah.
[00:25:35] It was just kind of great timing.
[00:25:37] Um, along with, uh, uh, you know, some other guys from Toronto.
[00:25:41] Right.
[00:25:41] Some names you might've heard of, like they either joined that year or the year after, but like
[00:25:45] Mario Riganello.
[00:25:46] Oh, of course.
[00:25:47] Olavo Tavares.
[00:25:48] Actually, there's like a Tavares, there's Hugo Tavares, Mike Tavares and some others.
[00:25:52] Oh yeah.
[00:25:53] Familiar names.
[00:25:54] Yeah.
[00:25:55] Yeah.
[00:25:55] Yeah.
[00:25:55] And then, uh, and then Mario Yannuzzi and Nutran, you know, joined the scene maybe four
[00:25:59] years after that.
[00:26:00] Let me ask you the question, being a Canadian, what is it about the Mario thing?
[00:26:05] Yeah.
[00:26:05] Why are there so many Marios?
[00:26:07] But like I said, the, there's still a very strong Italian population.
[00:26:11] Okay.
[00:26:11] All right.
[00:26:11] So our two top players in Canada, two top ranked players, Mario and Mario, right?
[00:26:16] I know there's a joke there somewhere.
[00:26:18] I won't make it.
[00:26:18] Oh yeah.
[00:26:18] Yeah.
[00:26:19] Yeah.
[00:26:19] The Mario brothers.
[00:26:20] Yeah.
[00:26:21] Yeah.
[00:26:21] But like, they're both amazing players.
[00:26:23] They've been, you know, been our two top players for a long time.
[00:26:25] No kidding.
[00:26:26] I mean, obviously great Canadian players in many different cities, but those two have kind
[00:26:30] of proved like separated themselves a bit.
[00:26:32] Yeah.
[00:26:33] So in your progression into tornado, how long was it before you became competitive?
[00:26:39] Um, so competitive.
[00:26:42] So I, so that after that league, the league was like the prize for winning that league.
[00:26:47] Okay.
[00:26:47] It was actually the trip to Vegas where there was a tournament in Vegas.
[00:26:51] And, uh, so Olavo Tabaris and myself, uh, we actually came third in rookie doubles.
[00:26:58] Nice.
[00:26:59] And I mean, this was like, I had a pull side snake.
[00:27:02] He had a push side snake.
[00:27:04] I had a lane pass and I think he had a wall.
[00:27:07] Okay.
[00:27:08] And we just switched whenever we could until the goalies could figure out our limitations
[00:27:12] and then we would switch again and hope they would forget.
[00:27:14] There you go.
[00:27:15] Um, from playing Italian style fastball.
[00:27:18] Yep.
[00:27:19] We both had pretty good, uh, reflexes.
[00:27:21] Yeah.
[00:27:21] I'd say half my goals when I was forward, uh, was from stuffing people.
[00:27:26] Right.
[00:27:27] Yeah.
[00:27:27] So, but, but yeah, like after that, you know, we got into a pretty hardcore, I have
[00:27:32] to give a shout out to a bunch of guys in Ottawa.
[00:27:34] Okay.
[00:27:35] Including Chris out of Antides who's here today because they were already like, um, quite
[00:27:41] proficient in tornado.
[00:27:42] There's a guy named Eric Dunn who I think you know of.
[00:27:45] Oh yeah.
[00:27:45] He had developed a whole scene there.
[00:27:47] Mario Puglesi.
[00:27:49] Yes.
[00:27:50] He's a, he's another great Mario.
[00:27:51] Yep.
[00:27:52] Uh, he helps the club with a bunch of AB stuff actually.
[00:27:55] He showed me a lot about streaming.
[00:27:57] Yeah.
[00:27:58] Yeah.
[00:27:58] Same with us.
[00:27:59] Really great.
[00:27:59] Really great.
[00:28:00] Yeah.
[00:28:01] Um, and, and, and he's still, he's staying in contact.
[00:28:04] We hear from him once in a while and I've always wanted to have him on the show.
[00:28:06] Oh, he'd be a great guy.
[00:28:07] Yeah.
[00:28:08] On the show.
[00:28:08] No question.
[00:28:09] Wow.
[00:28:10] So.
[00:28:10] Yeah.
[00:28:11] Well, one time I was playing a match with one Mario against those other two Marios.
[00:28:16] So you're the odd man out.
[00:28:17] You're the only Sean on the table.
[00:28:18] That's right.
[00:28:19] That's right.
[00:28:19] Oh my God.
[00:28:20] Well, you know, it happened last night.
[00:28:23] Right.
[00:28:23] There was a doubles match between Stan Pulaski and his wife, Cheryl Pulaski.
[00:28:29] Yeah.
[00:28:29] And then there was Sherwin Pulaski on the other side.
[00:28:32] Yeah.
[00:28:32] With Jeff.
[00:28:33] I forgot Jeff's last name.
[00:28:34] Just call him Pulaski now.
[00:28:35] Yeah.
[00:28:35] Right.
[00:28:35] Exactly.
[00:28:36] Jeff Schneider, but he now, he's now a Pulaski.
[00:28:37] He's now officially a Pulaski.
[00:28:39] Yeah.
[00:28:39] And I was like, when is that ever going to happen again?
[00:28:42] Yeah.
[00:28:43] Yeah.
[00:28:43] Pretty rare.
[00:28:44] Yeah.
[00:28:45] Right?
[00:28:45] Yeah.
[00:28:46] Sherwin, 15 years of age.
[00:28:49] That's amazing.
[00:28:49] He's walking away with at least four prizes.
[00:28:52] Amazing.
[00:28:53] If not five now.
[00:28:53] I'm not sure how far he's gone into Open, but wow.
[00:28:58] Yeah.
[00:28:58] Just the wave of upcoming talent, next generation talent.
[00:29:02] Yes.
[00:29:03] It's a great sign.
[00:29:04] Yeah.
[00:29:04] So when it comes to Toronto, what's the youth scene like?
[00:29:08] So unfortunately, like, you know, we've had some ideas.
[00:29:11] We've run, you know, a few programs here and there, but we haven't been able to make
[00:29:15] anything really stick yet.
[00:29:16] Okay.
[00:29:17] Like last summer, we did like a four or six week, like Saturday afternoon program where
[00:29:26] Okay.
[00:29:26] And I mean, one of the weeks or a few of the weeks, we had about eight kids, like all children
[00:29:31] of players.
[00:29:33] Got it.
[00:29:34] Actually, mostly, but a few others that we were able to do.
[00:29:37] Just kind of, you know, find through some other, like, I don't know, word of mouth
[00:29:41] maybe.
[00:29:42] Yeah.
[00:29:42] But unfortunately, like just schedules, you know, like just made it tough.
[00:29:49] Yeah.
[00:29:50] Yeah.
[00:29:50] And then, you know, during the week, like our DIPs tend to run late.
[00:29:54] So they're not really that great.
[00:29:56] Like there was a great kid.
[00:29:57] His name is Elias that he, you know, in a couple of years, he would be here with like,
[00:30:03] okay.
[00:30:03] Like, you know what?
[00:30:04] Like he could be like, like Sherman in, in a couple of years too.
[00:30:08] But you know what?
[00:30:09] And he's, his mom at one point was like, okay, well, uh, these late nights aren't helping
[00:30:15] for your morning.
[00:30:16] Yes.
[00:30:16] The next day.
[00:30:17] Yeah.
[00:30:17] Yeah.
[00:30:18] Yeah.
[00:30:19] So if we, but you said marketing, right?
[00:30:21] Like the other part of that is if we actually had someone who had time and could say, you
[00:30:24] know what?
[00:30:25] Every Saturday or Sunday, like afternoon.
[00:30:27] Right.
[00:30:27] We're going to do a kid's thing and it'll be consistent.
[00:30:30] I know we could kind of grow that, but we just haven't had the resources really to do
[00:30:34] that.
[00:30:34] Resources and personnel.
[00:30:36] Yeah.
[00:30:36] Cause you've got to have somebody who's dedicated to that.
[00:30:38] Yeah.
[00:30:38] A couple of people who want to, want to coach and show them what to do.
[00:30:41] Foosball Clubs USA got their t-shirt shop right next to us here.
[00:30:45] Yeah.
[00:30:46] They're amazing.
[00:30:47] You know, Michael Stahl took over from John O'Brien who passed away and they have 50 clubs,
[00:30:53] 50.
[00:30:54] Yeah.
[00:30:54] Across the nation right now.
[00:30:56] Amazing.
[00:30:56] I mean, I, I wasn't even aware of that until recently.
[00:31:00] I had no idea.
[00:31:01] Yeah.
[00:31:01] Yeah.
[00:31:01] So they're very busy.
[00:31:02] Um, whether or not those kids necessarily become, you know, full-time players or pros
[00:31:09] or pro masters, that's irrelevant.
[00:31:10] It's the fact they know about the sport.
[00:31:12] Yeah.
[00:31:13] And they understand it and watch it and turn their friends on to it.
[00:31:16] And they're not just staring at their screens.
[00:31:18] Yes.
[00:31:18] Looking at their, you know, their whatever PlayStation or so on.
[00:31:22] Yeah.
[00:31:22] So I have to ask you, uh, you mentioned children.
[00:31:25] How many, how many children do you have?
[00:31:26] Uh, I have two.
[00:31:27] Two?
[00:31:27] Nice.
[00:31:27] Yeah.
[00:31:28] Yeah.
[00:31:28] You got Rachel, she's 17 and Russell just turned 16.
[00:31:31] And, uh, are they playing any foosball?
[00:31:33] They, uh, Rachel, not really at all.
[00:31:36] Uh, Russell now and then, you know, he'll help me warm up.
[00:31:39] Okay.
[00:31:39] Um, but actually when the kids were younger that I would, you know, I would kind of use
[00:31:43] them as like, uh, to, to, to practice with, right?
[00:31:46] Get on the other side, move around, show me a random zone.
[00:31:49] Right.
[00:31:50] And they both enjoyed that.
[00:31:51] I love it.
[00:31:52] Yeah.
[00:31:52] But, you know, but as you know, uh, you know, I mean, by now they have their, their
[00:31:56] own interests.
[00:31:57] Sure.
[00:31:58] Yeah.
[00:31:58] My son's born.
[00:31:59] That's the age, right?
[00:31:59] That's the age.
[00:32:00] My son's more into baseball.
[00:32:01] I mean, he's really into baseball.
[00:32:03] And then my daughter, like now we're, we're going to like university open houses and stuff.
[00:32:07] Right.
[00:32:07] And what does she want to do?
[00:32:09] She would like to be a lawyer at some point.
[00:32:11] Wow.
[00:32:11] Yeah.
[00:32:12] Wow.
[00:32:12] So, um, yeah.
[00:32:14] That's terrific.
[00:32:15] I don't think I've asked you the question.
[00:32:16] What, what do you do for a living?
[00:32:18] Uh, so I work in technology.
[00:32:19] Okay.
[00:32:20] I work for, uh, one of the Canadian banks.
[00:32:22] Uh, and now it's specifically within like the analytics, one of the analytics areas.
[00:32:26] Okay.
[00:32:27] Um, yeah.
[00:32:28] So is it software based mostly?
[00:32:30] Um, it's more like database.
[00:32:32] Database.
[00:32:33] Yeah.
[00:32:33] Like, you know, just a lot of open source tools, but it's really, um, trying to get insights
[00:32:38] from the data.
[00:32:39] And then the team I'm on is, uh, it's like the AI and machine learning team.
[00:32:43] Oh, wow.
[00:32:44] Like every company now has, you know, of course, AI and ML teams.
[00:32:48] There's a show all by itself.
[00:32:49] Yes.
[00:32:50] Yes.
[00:32:50] How is that going to affect AI?
[00:32:51] How is that going to affect what you do?
[00:32:54] Uh, so it already, I mean, so our team is like, that's kind of our bread and butter.
[00:32:59] Um, so the, like, it's, uh, like, it's a great question because like every job out there,
[00:33:06] you can kind of figure out or, or, or at least, you know, consider what's the long-term
[00:33:10] implication or even medium-term implication of AI on, on, on this type of job.
[00:33:15] Yes.
[00:33:16] Um, but then also how it can make your job better.
[00:33:19] Um, and then one of the things that we're encouraged to do as, as employees is really figure
[00:33:25] that out, like, you know, we've got access to like, you know, some AI tools.
[00:33:28] So how can we use this to do your job better?
[00:33:30] Right.
[00:33:31] So it's interesting.
[00:33:32] Or do your job without you.
[00:33:34] Yeah.
[00:33:34] Yeah.
[00:33:35] Uh, because if everyone, like, because honestly, you know, for a lot of jobs, including mine,
[00:33:40] you, you can become more productive with the more you use AI.
[00:33:44] Right.
[00:33:45] And if everyone in the company is becoming more productive, then maybe there's some redundancy
[00:33:49] there.
[00:33:50] I don't know.
[00:33:50] Right.
[00:33:51] You know, it's, I, I think that, that we hear AI.
[00:33:55] AI right now.
[00:33:56] And it's kind of like the, the, the big, bad, big, bad wolf on one side, but the other
[00:34:01] side, it's like, oh my, look at the possibilities.
[00:34:05] Absolutely.
[00:34:05] Yeah.
[00:34:06] So anything you can think of, you can apply it to.
[00:34:09] Absolutely.
[00:34:10] Uh, and, uh, if you're, yeah, whatever your, your, your team or your, your, your own, your
[00:34:15] own mandate is.
[00:34:16] Yep.
[00:34:17] Um, and then with all the data that's just being collected, I mean, it's all the, it's, you
[00:34:22] know, massive amounts, more data, which we have now, which basically, you know,
[00:34:24] basically makes training AI is possible.
[00:34:27] Right.
[00:34:28] Right.
[00:34:28] That's not going to go away.
[00:34:29] It's just going to keep increasing.
[00:34:31] So is the way I look at it, if, if AI can make, made to be benevolent.
[00:34:37] Yeah.
[00:34:37] Right.
[00:34:38] Yeah.
[00:34:38] Uh, control it, but also, uh, more accurate because it takes data from so many different
[00:34:43] places that it's not always accurate.
[00:34:45] That's right.
[00:34:46] And of course there's biases in data too.
[00:34:47] Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:49] Yeah.
[00:34:49] Exactly.
[00:34:49] So that's where the human factor kind of comes in.
[00:34:51] Yeah.
[00:34:52] And then, yeah.
[00:34:53] But then like you said, is that human factor benevolent?
[00:34:56] Right.
[00:34:56] Right.
[00:34:56] Right.
[00:34:57] Exactly.
[00:34:57] Like the, you know, the best I've always felt, you know, uh, uh, in, in school, I, uh,
[00:35:02] poli sci was one of the things that I, I kind of studied a lot.
[00:35:07] Interesting.
[00:35:07] You need to talk.
[00:35:09] Yeah.
[00:35:09] But, uh, so no, the best form of government, you know, a benevolent dictator, but like who,
[00:35:15] you know, who gets to determine who that is and how do you know they're benevolent?
[00:35:19] Right.
[00:35:19] Right.
[00:35:19] Because I mean, uh, you know, like there are multiple, many, I'm not, don't want to get
[00:35:24] into politics and everything, but yeah, I'm not trying to advocate anyone, any form
[00:35:28] of the other.
[00:35:29] Like I really like, you know, what we have in Canada, but yes, if you could say a benevolent
[00:35:33] dictator who's incorruptible and, you know, deals with like, it's not just squeaky wheels
[00:35:38] getting it.
[00:35:39] It works for the benefit of those people that are there.
[00:35:42] Yeah.
[00:35:43] I mean, that sounds like a very utopian idea.
[00:35:47] Yeah.
[00:35:47] AI has a way around it.
[00:35:48] I don't know.
[00:35:50] If, yeah.
[00:35:51] I mean, yeah, that's not something we're going to be able to solve.
[00:35:56] And now foosball and AI.
[00:35:58] Let's see.
[00:35:59] How do we connect those two things?
[00:36:00] Yeah.
[00:36:01] Um, there is like, there's definitely from like a stats perspective.
[00:36:06] Yep.
[00:36:07] There's a, if you want to figure out how to, I mean, Clay's already on top of like a lot
[00:36:11] of this stuff, right?
[00:36:11] Very good at it.
[00:36:12] Yeah.
[00:36:13] Yeah.
[00:36:13] So if you want to figure out, you know, next level, um, you know, things like how to improve
[00:36:18] your game, how to improve the outcomes, you know, based on like all these thousands of
[00:36:24] games that have happened before that, and his stats database just keeps increasing and
[00:36:27] increasing.
[00:36:28] Exactly.
[00:36:28] Um, so there'll always be more insight there.
[00:36:31] Yeah.
[00:36:31] Um, and then, yeah, like what else can, can you do with that?
[00:36:35] Like, you know, strategies, like you think of the other sports, right?
[00:36:37] Like, like we're in playoff baseball season right now.
[00:36:41] Like I'm a, I'm a big baseball fan and yeah.
[00:36:44] And I was rooting for the Tigers big time here, um, just as the underdog, but yeah, the stats
[00:36:49] and, you know, high speed cameras, it's made it all like, you know, so, you know, exciting.
[00:36:53] Right.
[00:36:54] But it's really changed.
[00:36:55] Like, you know, like it's not coincidence that now you've got these pitchers throwing like
[00:36:59] 102, like, yeah.
[00:37:01] Someone throws 98.
[00:37:02] It's not even a big deal anymore.
[00:37:03] I know.
[00:37:04] Right.
[00:37:04] And you see, it's almost, almost routine to see 98 miles an hour.
[00:37:08] Yeah.
[00:37:08] With ridicular spin rates.
[00:37:10] Yeah.
[00:37:10] Right.
[00:37:10] And vertical and horizontal movements that were unheard of before.
[00:37:13] Mm-hmm.
[00:37:14] And that's all from having such like data and all these new, all these models now that
[00:37:19] say, you know what, you know, if you look at all the baseball hitters, you know, in there
[00:37:24] today, this is for you, for you, the kind of person and pitcher you are, you work on these
[00:37:30] pitches and you're going to have a better chance of success.
[00:37:33] Right.
[00:37:33] And you see it playing like, so all these teams, you know that they're doing this.
[00:37:38] Sure.
[00:37:38] Right.
[00:37:38] So it's, it's evolved so much from, you know, batter and hitter.
[00:37:42] Right.
[00:37:42] Right.
[00:37:43] It's a, it's astounding really.
[00:37:44] Yeah.
[00:37:45] Yeah.
[00:37:45] Just to, just to, the, the, the level of performance is just through the roof now.
[00:37:49] Yeah.
[00:37:50] So, I mean, so something like that can, can definitely happen and is happening in foosball
[00:37:54] too.
[00:37:55] Yeah.
[00:37:55] Yeah.
[00:37:55] Yeah.
[00:37:55] Absolutely.
[00:37:56] Now it's exciting.
[00:37:57] I think the year 2025 again, and I keep harping on the fact that, you know, we've got a whole
[00:38:01] new regime, a whole new idea when it comes to major tour, a world foosball tour.
[00:38:06] Um, I think that there's, there's a, there's room for, for everything you can think of right
[00:38:12] now, including what we already talked about.
[00:38:14] Right.
[00:38:15] But I think it's, it's about people just saying, you know what, let's give it a chance.
[00:38:19] Yeah.
[00:38:20] Let's see what happens.
[00:38:21] Let's get behind it.
[00:38:23] Let's, let's have a, let's have a, um, a year or two to get used to the new changes.
[00:38:27] If there are, I mean, it might, might not change much of anything right away, but enough to say,
[00:38:33] okay, now we can start, start to look at the, uh, the phases in which Ryan wants to work
[00:38:38] and improve the whole thing, improve the sport in general.
[00:38:42] Um, I, I, I definitely agree.
[00:38:44] Uh, like you can't evolve if you're resistant to change and there's always going to be a group
[00:38:48] that doesn't want to change.
[00:38:49] Yep.
[00:38:49] And they may have their reasons and they may be valid too, but if you really want to push
[00:38:52] things forward, you have to try stuff.
[00:38:54] Exactly.
[00:38:55] Another quick question on regards to league and of course, uh, an organization, the ITSF,
[00:39:02] International Table Soccer Federation in Europe.
[00:39:04] Um, did you get a chance to, uh, either witness or go to the World Series?
[00:39:10] Yeah, I've been really fortunate.
[00:39:12] I was able to represent Canada, um, I think four times at, uh, at an ITSF, uh, event.
[00:39:18] Yeah.
[00:39:18] Very good.
[00:39:19] Yeah.
[00:39:19] Yeah.
[00:39:20] It was, it was amazing.
[00:39:21] And just, uh, to represent your country anywhere is obviously always like, you know, such a meaningful
[00:39:25] thing to do it in such a, you know, like a world-class, like, you know, event.
[00:39:31] Yeah.
[00:39:32] Uh, yeah, yeah.
[00:39:32] And, and, and major cities, you know, like I remember the first one I went to was not,
[00:39:37] you know, in France and walking around there and seeing like these huge signs that the town
[00:39:41] had put up with like, you know, a picture of Ryan Moore and Tony's Freedom in it, right?
[00:39:45] Isn't that cool?
[00:39:46] Yeah.
[00:39:47] Why aren't we doing that here?
[00:39:48] Exactly.
[00:39:49] Yeah.
[00:39:49] That's, that's great.
[00:39:50] Now, um, I went to the Texas, uh, World Series of ITSF earlier this year and just the, the
[00:39:57] setup, the staging was phenomenal.
[00:40:00] It was so good.
[00:40:01] I mean, these guys also have a great rig, of course.
[00:40:04] Um, but that was a bigger, a bigger event with more people, but a different format completely.
[00:40:09] How do you feel about the fact that ITSF favors Swiss and our, our standard here on this side
[00:40:17] of the pond is double elimination, but now going championship format.
[00:40:21] How do you feel about those things?
[00:40:22] So I think, uh, they're like different tools or different types of, uh, formats that are
[00:40:28] good for different types of tournaments.
[00:40:30] Okay.
[00:40:31] So if we have, um, you know, like I really liked the Swiss format.
[00:40:35] Yes.
[00:40:35] It gives everyone a, you know, a chance to play a larger number of people.
[00:40:39] It kind of does a good seating and then you can, you know, you could, you can run a elimination,
[00:40:45] like a good elimination event.
[00:40:46] Oh yeah.
[00:40:46] It's exciting too.
[00:40:47] Yeah.
[00:40:47] But if you have a tournament where you've got, you know, more than three, four events,
[00:40:51] I mean, you have most of these, you know, like 20 events here and even our Toronto events
[00:40:56] probably had 10 and you just can't do Swiss in that way.
[00:41:01] It's impossible.
[00:41:01] Yeah.
[00:41:02] So Tom, I'm not sure if you're aware that, uh, um, I didn't, uh, so I came up with a format.
[00:41:10] Okay.
[00:41:11] And, uh, I don't remember the year, but it was the year that, um, the South Korean song called
[00:41:18] Gangnam Style was really popular.
[00:41:20] I remember that.
[00:41:21] So I came up with this format.
[00:41:23] I jokingly called it Gangnam Style.
[00:41:25] I posted all about it.
[00:41:26] Really?
[00:41:27] There was a lot of controversy and about four years later, uh, it's in operation as championship
[00:41:32] format.
[00:41:33] Is it really?
[00:41:34] Yeah.
[00:41:34] Yeah.
[00:41:34] Is it really?
[00:41:35] So we're seeing that now, the results of that.
[00:41:38] That's right.
[00:41:38] Yeah.
[00:41:39] That's, well, I'm, I'm honored to have you in my presence.
[00:41:41] Like, wow, that, that's awesome.
[00:41:44] Thank you.
[00:41:44] I mostly mentioned that cause I want to take the heat off of like other people who've been
[00:41:48] criticized for it.
[00:41:49] And, you know, I know there's.
[00:41:51] Officially.
[00:41:52] Yes.
[00:41:52] Yes.
[00:41:52] He's taking the heat.
[00:41:53] He's taking the heat.
[00:41:54] You can give me the heat, you know, and I'm happy to talk about the pros and cons, although
[00:41:57] I think they've all been talked over many times.
[00:41:59] So was it something you had been thinking about for a long time?
[00:42:01] Um, I think it was probably because, uh, it was around the time where there were probably
[00:42:06] several tournaments in a row.
[00:42:08] Yep.
[00:42:08] Where an event that I was playing, it was either, I don't know, let's say, I know once was expert
[00:42:12] doubles and definitely pro doubles a few more times.
[00:42:15] Yep.
[00:42:15] Where it was like last day of the tournament, 3 a.m.
[00:42:19] I'm still waiting to play.
[00:42:20] Right.
[00:42:21] No kidding.
[00:42:22] Yeah.
[00:42:22] A couple of times it was either like, it's going to be a terrible drive home, uh, or we're
[00:42:27] going to miss our flight if we don't get out of here.
[00:42:29] So we had to just leave, choose to leave.
[00:42:31] Ah, forfeit out.
[00:42:32] Yeah.
[00:42:33] And it was, and it also seemed like, um, you know, like waiting, sure, waiting a half
[00:42:38] hour, an hour to play your match.
[00:42:41] It's reasonable, but we were waiting much more than that.
[00:42:44] And I think it's quite hours.
[00:42:45] Yeah.
[00:42:46] Yeah.
[00:42:46] And then you're watching some team get hot in the loser bracket.
[00:42:49] Of course.
[00:42:50] Quite off or a team that you already beat.
[00:42:52] Yep.
[00:42:52] And, but if they're a competitive team, um, you know, beating that competitive team, like
[00:42:57] if they're similar level to you, you're going to beat them twice.
[00:43:00] It's a lot harder than beating them once.
[00:43:02] Right.
[00:43:02] So watching them be warm and come back and be able to, you know, like to beat you.
[00:43:07] Yes.
[00:43:07] You know, just like, and then you're cold and you're like looking at your watch.
[00:43:10] Like it was really that, that kind of, you know, made me think of maybe there's a better
[00:43:15] way.
[00:43:15] That's good motivation right there.
[00:43:16] Yeah.
[00:43:17] That's great.
[00:43:17] And so you, you thought of this concept.
[00:43:21] Um, and when did you actually put it into play?
[00:43:23] I mean, obviously you mentioned during Gangdom that time that song was popular.
[00:43:27] Yeah.
[00:43:28] Um, had, had it been in development for some time before that?
[00:43:31] So, uh, yeah.
[00:43:32] Like I remember the foosballboard.net.
[00:43:35] Yep.
[00:43:35] I put this huge post there, but that was after maybe, uh, two months of running the format
[00:43:40] in our local stuff.
[00:43:42] Okay.
[00:43:42] In Toronto.
[00:43:43] Tested it out.
[00:43:43] Yeah.
[00:43:43] Tested it out.
[00:43:44] It worked great.
[00:43:44] Like on these Tuesday nights, for example, you know, where like people have to work in
[00:43:48] the morning.
[00:43:49] Right.
[00:43:49] Yeah.
[00:43:49] And, uh, so, and, and it was just amazing where the finals could be played and, you know,
[00:43:55] and you could have your drink or, you know, just relax or just go home if you need to.
[00:43:59] Okay.
[00:44:00] While the loser bracket is catching up.
[00:44:02] So, so I posted that there was a lot of, uh, you know, actually almost the exact same
[00:44:09] discussion.
[00:44:09] Right.
[00:44:10] Then as now.
[00:44:11] Uh, and then Kevin Westcott, um, ran a tournament in New York state.
[00:44:17] Um, what year was that?
[00:44:20] You remember?
[00:44:20] Jeez.
[00:44:20] I don't remember, but, uh, it was pre COVID.
[00:44:24] Oh God.
[00:44:25] So 2015, 2016.
[00:44:28] Um, I, I actually am not sure.
[00:44:31] Right.
[00:44:31] Okay.
[00:44:31] Yeah.
[00:44:32] And, uh, and he, he liked it.
[00:44:34] You know, of course there are some people who didn't, but the benefits were, were, you
[00:44:37] know, what we know they are now.
[00:44:39] Oh yeah.
[00:44:39] Um, I know Tony Spriedeman who was there.
[00:44:42] He didn't like it because, uh, he's, he, he's famous for double dipping and he's a machine.
[00:44:48] Yes.
[00:44:49] Right.
[00:44:49] And he, he'll play every event.
[00:44:51] He's got all this energy.
[00:44:52] Yep.
[00:44:52] Um, that was probably, and just coincidentally like in pretty small field, but I had a pretty
[00:44:57] good, um, uh, showing that tournament and I ended up playing him in the finals.
[00:45:03] Oh, wow.
[00:45:04] And of course he smashed me in the finals, but I was happy about it because Mario, I'd
[00:45:08] beaten Mario Arriganello in the winter side.
[00:45:11] You beat Mario?
[00:45:12] Yeah.
[00:45:12] The only time I have ever beat him in singles in like a meaningful, like an actual tournament.
[00:45:17] Right.
[00:45:17] Right.
[00:45:17] And, uh, and, and I knew that if I had to play him again, he would have come back and
[00:45:22] beat me.
[00:45:22] So I was like, yes, this format is working for me.
[00:45:25] Beautiful.
[00:45:25] Yeah.
[00:45:27] But Tony was unhappy.
[00:45:28] Spriedeman was unhappy because they lost actually to, I think Mario Januzzi and I.
[00:45:34] Okay.
[00:45:34] In, um, in the winter side in doubles.
[00:45:38] Got it.
[00:45:38] And didn't get a chance.
[00:45:40] Couldn't go back and double dip you.
[00:45:41] Exactly.
[00:45:42] Yeah.
[00:45:42] That's, you know, um, here's the only thing that I've heard that I kind of wonder about
[00:45:47] because if it's technically double elimination, so you have to lose twice before you're actually
[00:45:52] out.
[00:45:53] If you're in second place, you've only lost once.
[00:45:56] Yeah.
[00:45:56] If you're in third place, you've also only lost once.
[00:45:59] Yes.
[00:46:00] Yes.
[00:46:00] So how does that work?
[00:46:01] So, uh, the way that I initially drew this up was at the second place and third place.
[00:46:07] It'd be like, you would basically share that, that position and you would have the same money.
[00:46:12] Interesting.
[00:46:13] Yeah.
[00:46:13] Okay.
[00:46:13] So it makes it more worthwhile.
[00:46:15] Makes more worthwhile.
[00:46:16] Yes, exactly.
[00:46:17] And especially if you both only lost to the same team.
[00:46:20] Gotcha.
[00:46:20] Gotcha.
[00:46:21] Gotcha.
[00:46:21] So there really is one true champion.
[00:46:24] That's right.
[00:46:24] The undefeated team and that's it.
[00:46:26] That's right.
[00:46:26] Okay.
[00:46:27] Yeah.
[00:46:27] I think it's a, it's a wonderful concept and I'm so glad that they've adopted
[00:46:31] it because it makes it so much easier.
[00:46:33] Like you've got all the benefits.
[00:46:34] It makes it so much easier.
[00:46:35] And those who are not happy necessarily because they can't double dip anymore.
[00:46:40] Well, sorry.
[00:46:42] Yeah.
[00:46:42] Yeah.
[00:46:42] And, and I, I'd say you think of the alternative where, because if you're still going to have
[00:46:47] all these events on a weekend.
[00:46:48] Yep.
[00:46:48] Well, yeah, you could just do single elimination.
[00:46:51] Right.
[00:46:51] But then for a lot of people that mean, that might mean like you, you come for the weekend
[00:46:55] to play three events.
[00:46:56] You might lose.
[00:46:57] Yeah.
[00:46:57] Lose four times and that's your entire tournament.
[00:47:00] Right.
[00:47:00] All weekend.
[00:47:01] Yeah.
[00:47:01] So, so, uh, the serious name I think I came up with at the time was called single elimination
[00:47:06] plus.
[00:47:07] Okay.
[00:47:08] So maybe frame it a little differently.
[00:47:10] Right.
[00:47:11] Um, because championship works better.
[00:47:14] Yeah.
[00:47:14] Mary came up with that name and as soon as she said, I'm like, yeah, that's a much better
[00:47:17] name.
[00:47:18] Yeah.
[00:47:18] It's a, it's to me, it's like a most sports are based around that same idea.
[00:47:23] You know, uh, if you're the, if you're the ultimate winner, obviously never being defeated
[00:47:28] during a tournament, then that's it.
[00:47:30] You're yeah.
[00:47:31] And there's no chance for somebody to come back after they've lost.
[00:47:34] Yeah.
[00:47:34] Yeah.
[00:47:34] And I think it's, uh, judo is one of the ones where it's kind of close to championship
[00:47:39] format.
[00:47:40] Okay.
[00:47:40] You actually can survive, like you can lose and then you can come back, but you can't,
[00:47:45] you can't win again.
[00:47:46] You can't take the championship.
[00:47:46] Yeah.
[00:47:47] Yeah.
[00:47:47] Wow.
[00:47:48] Very cool.
[00:47:49] Well, Sean, I got to say this, uh, this opportunity to sit down and really chat with you has been
[00:47:55] fortuitous to start with, uh, since we just met for the first time today.
[00:47:58] Yeah.
[00:47:59] Um, I'm looking forward to getting to Toronto.
[00:48:02] You are welcome anytime, Tom.
[00:48:04] Yeah.
[00:48:04] As well as any viewer, uh, to, to your show.
[00:48:07] I want to see the arrangement that the center you guys have built.
[00:48:11] Can we call it a training center?
[00:48:13] Can we call it?
[00:48:13] Absolutely.
[00:48:14] Uh, we've also used the word Academy.
[00:48:16] Like within there we call TFC Academy.
[00:48:18] Got it.
[00:48:19] Um, but yeah, training center.
[00:48:20] Uh, I'm pretty sure.
[00:48:21] Okay.
[00:48:21] I don't know if it's still a thing, but I know ITSF used to have these conditions where
[00:48:25] you could call yourself, uh, ITSF training center.
[00:48:27] Okay.
[00:48:28] And I know like we've got multi tables.
[00:48:29] We have enough where we, we were qualified.
[00:48:32] Qualified.
[00:48:33] Yeah.
[00:48:33] No question.
[00:48:34] See that.
[00:48:34] I think the first time I actually even heard or, or saw a training center,
[00:48:37] was, um, 2011.
[00:48:40] Uh, I have a sister who lives in Germany.
[00:48:42] And so just went to visit and I was just getting back into foosball at the time.
[00:48:46] Yeah.
[00:48:46] And, uh, when I went to visit, I thought, let me see if there's any foosball in Hanover,
[00:48:51] Germany.
[00:48:52] And, uh, went online, found a place.
[00:48:54] It was listed as a Tisch, Tisch Fossball.
[00:48:57] Yes.
[00:48:57] Yes.
[00:48:58] And, uh, so I emailed them and I said, uh, I'm interested in playing.
[00:49:02] Is there a, an event anytime?
[00:49:03] And thank goodness that Friday, the week I was going to be there, there was going to
[00:49:07] be a tournament.
[00:49:07] So, um, I went in, I paid three euros and there was 14 tables in those trainings.
[00:49:13] Amazing.
[00:49:14] 14.
[00:49:15] Yeah.
[00:49:15] A lot of them Leonhardt, but also they had a Tornado, they had a Bonzini.
[00:49:18] Yeah.
[00:49:19] They had, uh, Roberto Sport.
[00:49:21] And they had 45 players on a Friday night.
[00:49:24] Yeah, that's great.
[00:49:25] It was like, wow, this is amazing.
[00:49:27] And it was, it was Swiss format.
[00:49:29] So I played with, played, I think, uh, seven rounds.
[00:49:33] I think I lost twice out of the seven rounds.
[00:49:36] And so they had an A, B.
[00:49:38] So if you, if you were above the average, you ended up in a certain list.
[00:49:42] If you're below the average of wins, you're in another, another list.
[00:49:45] And they would team up, um, one who was an A to, with a B.
[00:49:49] Okay.
[00:49:50] So that would be the finals.
[00:49:52] Oh, okay.
[00:49:52] It was single elimination.
[00:49:53] Yeah.
[00:49:54] So I ended up with a super beginner.
[00:49:56] Yep.
[00:49:57] Who, uh, could only play goal.
[00:49:58] And I'm like, I'm a goalie.
[00:50:00] But, you know, we had a great time.
[00:50:02] Yeah.
[00:50:02] And that was a really great experience.
[00:50:04] And it, it stuck with me as this is the way it should be done.
[00:50:08] It sounds like you guys are doing the same thing.
[00:50:10] We are a bit smaller scale.
[00:50:12] Yeah.
[00:50:12] But, uh, but we hope to get there.
[00:50:13] Yes.
[00:50:14] Sometimes we're at capacity, but in terms of tables, we have about, uh, nine and 10.
[00:50:18] Yeah.
[00:50:19] Um, maybe six tornadoes, a fabbie, which is going to be replaced by Roberto Sport.
[00:50:24] And then you're going to get a fabbie.
[00:50:26] Yeah.
[00:50:26] We had a fabbie for local demand.
[00:50:28] Uh, we have a Leo.
[00:50:29] We've had a couple of Leos different times.
[00:50:31] Okay.
[00:50:31] Uh, Bunzini, which is pulled out for, uh, specific events.
[00:50:35] Actually, I should say there's a Bunzini event in, uh, sorry, there's an Ottawa tournament
[00:50:39] in a couple of weeks.
[00:50:40] I think you might've heard about that.
[00:50:42] Yes.
[00:50:42] There's a Bunzini event there.
[00:50:43] So some of the Toronto foosball club members have asked for the club to be set up.
[00:50:48] So they practice a Bunzini.
[00:50:50] I noticed there's a big tournament in January.
[00:50:53] Yeah.
[00:50:54] Uh, Leonhart one, I believe.
[00:50:55] Yeah, Leonhart.
[00:50:55] Yes.
[00:50:55] And, and I want to also say that we also plan in Toronto to have a tornado foosball tournament.
[00:51:02] Okay.
[00:51:30] Okay.
[00:51:32] Right.
[00:51:32] Just some messages, I think, that we sent.
[00:51:34] That's right.
[00:51:35] And, uh, and, you know, I don't, I'm maybe a coincidence or not, but we had our biggest
[00:51:39] tournament ever in that July tournament.
[00:51:41] No kidding.
[00:51:41] So, you know, definitely, uh, definitely didn't hurt and probably helped.
[00:51:46] Oh, who knows?
[00:51:46] But anything we can do in the future, you know, for publicity sake, we'd love to help you out.
[00:51:52] I appreciate it.
[00:51:53] And I appreciate having the chance to talk to you and talk to your viewers too.
[00:51:57] Absolutely.
[00:51:57] No, it's, it's, um, for us, you know, as long as there's things to talk about in foosball,
[00:52:03] we're going to be here.
[00:52:04] And there's always going to be stuff to talk about in foosball.
[00:52:08] From your, from your mouth to God's ears, right?
[00:52:11] Yeah.
[00:52:11] No, it's, it's, uh, it, our, our anniversary is coming up next week.
[00:52:16] Oh, okay.
[00:52:16] October 20th.
[00:52:17] Uh, six years.
[00:52:19] That's great.
[00:52:20] Yeah.
[00:52:20] So we, we didn't expect this.
[00:52:23] Yeah.
[00:52:23] Yeah.
[00:52:23] It was an experiment.
[00:52:24] It was something you just tried.
[00:52:26] Something you tried, but you put enough love and care and the quality, you know, it all
[00:52:30] shows the quality.
[00:52:31] And we, we were, uh, we're, uh, hoping for another six years.
[00:52:34] Let's put it that way.
[00:52:35] At least.
[00:52:35] Yeah.
[00:52:36] Yeah, exactly.
[00:52:37] So Sean, thank you so much.
[00:52:38] Sean Lee.
[00:52:39] Thank you.
[00:52:39] From Toronto, Canada.
[00:52:40] Uh, here at Michigan state.
[00:52:42] Well, I'm sorry.
[00:52:43] The great lakes classic.
[00:52:44] I should be, uh, careful about that.
[00:52:46] But thank you so much for joining us and being here and, and congratulations on your play
[00:52:50] this weekend.
[00:52:51] Thanks very much.
[00:52:52] And, uh, the door is open anytime you'd like to come on.
[00:52:55] I'll definitely take you up on that.
[00:52:57] Awesome.
[00:52:57] Fantastic.
[00:52:58] And again, uh, Sean Lee from, from Toronto here to talk to us all about, uh, foosball
[00:53:04] in general, but also Canadian foosball.
[00:53:06] By the way, why, why is everybody from Canada such a nice person?
[00:53:11] Uh, I don't know.
[00:53:12] Something in the water.
[00:53:13] Uh, you, you know, I was joking earlier or someone was joking earlier that, you know,
[00:53:18] like I had table tapped during our, uh, when I was miked.
[00:53:21] Okay.
[00:53:22] Or no, I think playing against clay.
[00:53:24] I can't remember who I was playing and I kind of apologized.
[00:53:27] Oh no.
[00:53:28] I, I, I table tapped and then I was like, Oh, don't do that to clay.
[00:53:31] And then someone said, so you're, oh, it was Cody was saying, so you're apologizing.
[00:53:36] So a tabletop is basically apologizing.
[00:53:37] So you're apologizing for an apology.
[00:53:39] And I'm like, I'm Canadian, right?
[00:53:43] Well, you can't help it.
[00:53:45] It's part of the culture is what we do.
[00:53:46] But yeah.
[00:53:47] Anyway, thank you again for being here.
[00:53:49] Thank you, Tom.
[00:53:50] Foosball radio on the road with Sean Lee.
[00:53:53] And thanks for tuning in.
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