FoosTalk Live | Ep 192 | The Reckoning

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[00:02:06] And here we are.

[00:02:07] It's Foostalk Live back again with episode number 192.

[00:02:11] Hey there, I'm Tom Robinson.

[00:02:13] Thanks for joining us tonight on Twitch TV.

[00:02:15] We are going to have ourselves an interesting time tonight.

[00:02:19] And of course before we get into that interesting time we call it the reckoning.

[00:02:23] I should of course introduce somebody who loves to talk about Foosball even though he lives

[00:02:28] in the state of Alabama.

[00:02:29] That would be Randy.

[00:02:31] Randy Raposo.

[00:02:32] What's up Randy?

[00:02:33] What's up Tom?

[00:02:34] What is living in Alabama have to do with my love of the game of Foosball?

[00:02:37] Oh I don't know.

[00:02:38] I just thought that would be clever.

[00:02:40] I'm not sure if it's going to be a good time.

[00:02:41] I'll take it.

[00:02:42] Tom, I'm excited.

[00:02:43] I'm so excited for tonight.

[00:02:44] I mean...

[00:02:45] Likewise?

[00:02:46] Likewise?

[00:02:47] It's going to be a good time.

[00:02:48] Super pumped.

[00:02:49] Yeah.

[00:02:50] Yeah, it's been a while but I got to say I'm feeling a little bit strange.

[00:03:00] We've now entered the Foostalk Live time zone.

[00:03:06] We're slipping back into something that was but it doesn't exist anymore.

[00:03:13] What is that what are you talking about?

[00:03:16] What is it Tom?

[00:03:17] I think it might be Jim Stevens.

[00:03:20] Jim Stevens are you with us?

[00:03:23] Oh!

[00:03:24] There's Jim.

[00:03:25] Hey Jim.

[00:03:27] And I'm hearing weird music.

[00:03:30] And when Jim is around you know who's not far behind.

[00:03:35] There he is.

[00:03:36] I knew it.

[00:03:37] I knew he was lurking.

[00:03:38] Mark Taurus.

[00:03:39] I see you, Mark.

[00:03:40] I see you, Mark.

[00:03:41] Boom!

[00:03:42] So who let you guys in?

[00:03:46] That's what I want to know.

[00:03:47] Well Tom, you were nice to let us in.

[00:03:50] Literally, let us in.

[00:03:51] I mean, you've been doing such a great job with this.

[00:03:54] 192 shows in a row.

[00:03:56] You are the radio voice of Foosball.

[00:03:59] No doubt about it.

[00:04:00] And so we appreciate what you've been doing and thanks for allowing us some phone call

[00:04:04] and inviting us back on.

[00:04:05] Well you know, it is one of those things.

[00:04:07] I'm just being feeling charitable I guess.

[00:04:10] Maybe that's...

[00:04:11] Maybe that's...

[00:04:12] You know, it's not even Christmas time anymore but hey.

[00:04:15] But no, it's great to have you both back.

[00:04:16] I mean what has been happening to you two?

[00:04:20] Jim, go ahead.

[00:04:21] Full of sin.

[00:04:22] What's going on?

[00:04:23] You know, just a live and live.

[00:04:25] Sometimes life takes you in different directions.

[00:04:27] And of course I was a regular on the Foosball tour for almost 30 years on a full-time basis.

[00:04:32] We're talking more than 300, 350 tournaments that I worked over that period of time.

[00:04:39] It just got to where I needed to kind of shift gears and make a little bit of a left turn

[00:04:44] and do something a little different.

[00:04:45] Still getting out there every once in a while of course to work the major championships.

[00:04:49] But just live and live raising the two kids.

[00:04:52] I went 12 year old daughter Ari who loves basketball.

[00:04:55] And my nine year old son who is a baseball nut.

[00:04:59] Just raising kids and working for a financial company here in Durango, Colorado.

[00:05:05] Where it was a balmy 54 degrees today.

[00:05:07] 54?

[00:05:08] That's warm.

[00:05:09] That's the warmest day we've had in a couple of months.

[00:05:11] We're up here at about 7,000 feet.

[00:05:13] Sunshine 54 feels like 70 or so.

[00:05:18] So a beautiful day here.

[00:05:19] So yeah, just still kind of have the toe on the water a little bit with Foosball of course.

[00:05:25] And but real life as well.

[00:05:27] Nice and Mark, where where have you been hiding?

[00:05:30] You want to do a era?

[00:05:32] Where did you want to do it?

[00:05:37] You can just keep doing that all night.

[00:05:38] I'll keep laughing like a nine year old.

[00:05:39] What up Mark?

[00:05:41] Where did an era where we could identify with whatever we want?

[00:05:46] And oh boy.

[00:05:48] I saw myself.

[00:05:49] I looked in the mirror and I saw an NBA basketball pro.

[00:05:52] And so last year, I've been trying to walk on the NBA basketball teams and it hasn't

[00:05:59] gone well.

[00:06:00] So I'm back in my comfort zone right here.

[00:06:03] So sorry.

[00:06:04] On the show man.

[00:06:05] So sorry to hear that.

[00:06:06] Seriously, I'll be brief about this because Jim sucked all the oxygen out of the room with

[00:06:10] his 20 minute die drive about himself.

[00:06:12] Heels the vibe.

[00:06:14] Here we go.

[00:06:16] No.

[00:06:17] I moved.

[00:06:18] I was in Chicago.

[00:06:20] I got a new gig.

[00:06:21] I moved to Des Moines, Iowa.

[00:06:23] What?

[00:06:24] And so that interview process was months long.

[00:06:27] It was a month long interview process.

[00:06:29] And frankly, the Fuzball thing was always fun to get you know, the Fuzball thing started

[00:06:34] again in the middle of the pandemic like 2020.

[00:06:36] We started doing Fuzball stuff and I did a lot of work.

[00:06:40] And now it's not the appropriate time but I did a lot of work committed to Fuzball and

[00:06:43] I did kind of got what I wanted out of it.

[00:06:45] So there was a little reprieve but Jim, same as Jim, there's an itch man.

[00:06:49] There's a gym and itch.

[00:06:50] You guys have seen me trolling.

[00:06:52] I'm a massive troll, right?

[00:06:53] I just try to launch into things and try to like start fires.

[00:06:57] People are catching on finally that I'm an antagonist and a provocateur if you want to

[00:07:01] call that.

[00:07:02] No.

[00:07:03] The Arsenal's.

[00:07:04] But so I'm always lingering man and you know but here this is great.

[00:07:08] It's great to be back here and talk about stuff.

[00:07:10] So thanks for having us.

[00:07:12] It's a it's a I still a little surreal.

[00:07:15] I can say it's surreal.

[00:07:16] So so I guess we're going to talk about Fuzball tonight.

[00:07:20] I guess.

[00:07:21] I thought we were going to talk about corn since Mox living in Iowa.

[00:07:26] Iowa.

[00:07:27] Yeah.

[00:07:28] Hard to understand Randy at times with that thick Alabama accent.

[00:07:31] That's right.

[00:07:32] Um, we can talk corn if you want.

[00:07:37] I'm ready.

[00:07:38] I'm ready for corn.

[00:07:39] Cream corn.

[00:07:40] Maize.

[00:07:41] Cream corn.

[00:07:42] Yeah.

[00:07:43] Mexican street corn.

[00:07:44] It's been enough.

[00:07:45] For me, it's been almost three months since I've worked at tournaments and it worked

[00:07:48] six last year.

[00:07:50] And so I haven't really talked a lot of Fuzball.

[00:07:51] We go down to the local local pub that the garage down on eighth street here in Durango

[00:07:55] and knock it around a couple times a month.

[00:07:57] Cool.

[00:07:58] But actually getting out here and talking Fuzball, talking with state of the sport,

[00:08:00] talking of course about what happened.

[00:08:02] The announcement a week or so ago of the New Hall of Famers which I think we can touch

[00:08:05] on that as well for sure.

[00:08:07] Um, you know, another other topics that I think have come up in terms of uh, uh,

[00:08:12] point system and, you know, and I know Tom and I don't know Randy and I'll mark you

[00:08:16] know as well that I've got some opinions certainly about that and about where I envision

[00:08:20] the sport should be and I know Mark as well.

[00:08:23] Um, so hopefully we can kind of unleash it a little bit tonight and yeah.

[00:08:26] And there's really will be a true Fuzball reckoning.

[00:08:29] There is indeed.

[00:08:30] Uh, I think this just last week or two, of course last weekend, uh, Donald Wilson was on.

[00:08:37] Thank you again, Donald.

[00:08:38] And talked about this points reset that was supposedly going to be happening.

[00:08:43] Although Randy, I think you just checked in on that.

[00:08:45] What's what's happened?

[00:08:46] Yeah.

[00:08:47] I sent, I sent Donald the talk, uh, text message earlier this afternoon to find out, um,

[00:08:52] you know, what was going on.

[00:08:53] He said he thought it already happened on Friday but unfortunately it did not.

[00:08:57] So he said he was going to get some information to get back to me.

[00:09:00] Again, kickoff starts in a couple days.

[00:09:02] So they're supposed to have this worked out here soon.

[00:09:05] Um, that's, that's it.

[00:09:08] I mean, I, uh, you know, the points are, uh, I think there's that look.

[00:09:17] I've told you before pro amateur.

[00:09:19] That's it.

[00:09:20] Let's go.

[00:09:21] That's how I feel.

[00:09:22] There's a great.

[00:09:23] I don't disagree with that.

[00:09:25] Um, however, even before that, um, you know, and this is something we've talked about

[00:09:29] for years, both here and on the Fuzball inside Fuz telecasts, is that in no disrespect to

[00:09:35] Mary, she has done a consistent job with the tour for, for 20 years or so.

[00:09:39] Um, but the point system should not be controlled by any promoter.

[00:09:45] It should be independent of you.

[00:09:46] It should be something that falls completely under the auspices of an independent federation

[00:09:50] as it is in every other country in the world.

[00:09:53] And then yes, you're still going to have people griping about it.

[00:09:55] You're always going to have people griping about it.

[00:09:57] But at least then they're not thinking that there are ulterior motives potentially and I'm

[00:10:00] not saying there are, but they're not thinking that they're, they're, they're trusting a system

[00:10:05] that they know is a democratic system with an independent federation.

[00:10:09] It really has no, you know, no horse in the race necessarily and no individual horse in

[00:10:13] the race beyond just the sport itself.

[00:10:16] Um, and so we even beyond that.

[00:10:18] And I think what Randy said certainly has some merit.

[00:10:20] That's how it was on the TS tour all those years ago.

[00:10:22] You had basically two divisions.

[00:10:24] If you were a novice player, you could play up.

[00:10:27] You could play that open division if you wanted to or you could play in a lower division.

[00:10:31] Price money was good in that.

[00:10:32] In fact, we're going to talk about a guy tonight here in a few minutes.

[00:10:35] I think that that really took advantage of that system a little bit and did really well

[00:10:40] with it.

[00:10:41] But, um, but you know, before anything, it needs to be independent.

[00:10:46] Um, this is, of course, you guys are not going to beat a dead horse, um, but there needs

[00:10:51] to be a strong independent federation things out there in here in this country.

[00:10:55] And unfortunately, we have yet to see that.

[00:10:57] And again, no disrespect to anybody.

[00:10:59] It's a tough job.

[00:11:00] We don't know anybody who can really do the job.

[00:11:02] Um, the way it needs to be done.

[00:11:05] But that is what needs to happen.

[00:11:07] The model is already look at Germany.

[00:11:09] Look at Switzerland, look at France, look at, look at countries around the world who are

[00:11:13] running an independent federation and how different that situation is and how successful

[00:11:18] it can be, just look at Germany.

[00:11:20] So anyway, that's for me, it needs to be independent.

[00:11:24] Makes sense.

[00:11:25] Disinterest third party makes sense.

[00:11:29] Mac.

[00:11:29] Wow.

[00:11:30] So, oh my gosh.

[00:11:33] Like, uh, there's some even a rap lack here.

[00:11:36] Which one am I?

[00:11:37] Dude, you can be a dead man.

[00:11:39] You're a duck.

[00:11:41] Man, I've been railing on this thing for so long that it's, it has some points, various

[00:11:47] points.

[00:11:48] It's created an embittered relationship between Mary and me over the decades, right?

[00:11:53] There used to be a, a Fuzball board.net form where everyone went to.

[00:11:58] And that was the big thing and like, I, the reason why I feel comfortable speaking about

[00:12:04] this because I'm one of the biggest offenders.

[00:12:07] And my story is such a typical non, like such a typical story, right?

[00:12:13] So back in the day, and I know I feel badly ready for the younger generation players

[00:12:18] that are sick of hearing about back in the day.

[00:12:20] And Sally Molley talking about the late Ailes early 90s.

[00:12:24] You could, you're a 900 point rookie and you got to 800, 1800 points to become pro.

[00:12:29] And it was so easy to do like it was so easy to do.

[00:12:33] It was so easy to do.

[00:12:34] I had two names and I made them both pro and then I made them both pro in like three

[00:12:38] years and quit because there were some similar things that are to the, to the, identical

[00:12:43] to today, the higher rank you get because it's a social construct created by a handful

[00:12:48] of people.

[00:12:49] The higher ranked you get, the less higher interviews are more expensive you have, the

[00:12:53] less events you can play.

[00:12:55] That's just the reality of how, and it's amazing how even when I was 17 years old, I didn't

[00:12:59] buy into the construct.

[00:13:01] I'm like, I don't care what you call me because it doesn't know.

[00:13:05] It's not necessarily a relation between what you call me and my skill level.

[00:13:09] You could call me a pro and I could beat some of these guys but I'll never win.

[00:13:13] I'll never beat La Frado in a open double spinal.

[00:13:16] I might beat him in the third round if I have a great match.

[00:13:19] He's probably going to come back and there was the same thing back that is now.

[00:13:22] And so we get these things confused points and rank.

[00:13:25] And we get them confused because in the United States, there's a relationship between points

[00:13:28] and rank and rank is the psychological social construct.

[00:13:32] You guys got people thinking they're really masters.

[00:13:35] They think they're masters and no offense to the great guys who just became masters and

[00:13:38] works so hard at it.

[00:13:39] I'm going to be direct and transparent with you.

[00:13:41] You're a master in the eyes of this social construct.

[00:13:44] You're not a master to me.

[00:13:46] You have a master.

[00:13:47] Shit.

[00:13:48] To me, you're a master when you beat the top players in championship, tour of it.

[00:13:52] Anyway, let me make some of this because I could do what Jim does all the time and just

[00:13:56] talk the whole two hours.

[00:13:58] I love you, Jim.

[00:13:59] I love you.

[00:14:00] I'm going to make this real simple.

[00:14:02] There are way easier efficient ways to actually delineate between people's skill sets.

[00:14:08] And Randy, I love what you, because that's where I'm from, right?

[00:14:10] And I don't mind three.

[00:14:11] I don't mind like amateur and pro and expert.

[00:14:15] I don't mind that.

[00:14:16] But just like, let's be real, man.

[00:14:17] So much is is economizing it and making more ranks for more money and the things you need

[00:14:22] to do to keep your business running.

[00:14:23] Let's just be sincere about what people's true skill levels are.

[00:14:27] If it takes people five or eight years to become a pro and they can never become a master,

[00:14:31] that's the way it should be.

[00:14:33] It shouldn't be a race to become a pro in three years because you all that's nonsense.

[00:14:38] Anyway, I don't even know what I'm talking about.

[00:14:40] We're back there again.

[00:14:41] Just yapping.

[00:14:42] No, no.

[00:14:43] And I remember when I started in early 2000, it was rookie semi pro pro and master and

[00:14:51] you gain points by not going out into if you be a pro, you got bonus points to be to

[00:14:57] mat like it seemed the system seemed easier to gain points and not lose points and it

[00:15:04] did make sense.

[00:15:06] And now, I mean, I was an expert for like 15 years.

[00:15:10] I was an I got I was a rookie became a semi pro in a year.

[00:15:15] I went to three tournaments became a semi pro and then I was a semi pro for a few years,

[00:15:20] got close to pro that Mary took over the points.

[00:15:23] And then I was an expert like I said for 15 years and I just toward you know, I'd play

[00:15:27] a couple of events a year because being in the Northeast it was hard to get out.

[00:15:31] It was expensive now since I've been in the South, I've been able to play more.

[00:15:35] I you know, I turn pro in a couple of years and but I think what you're saying makes

[00:15:40] sense.

[00:15:41] I mean, if you're I think being a master should be a very select group of players.

[00:15:49] I want to I mean, that's a goal of mine.

[00:15:51] I want to be that.

[00:15:52] I want to be a master.

[00:15:53] But you know, to be that, I mean, you're talking the top 1% of Usual players in the world.

[00:15:59] That's how I feel.

[00:16:00] Would it be an advantage though?

[00:16:01] Sure.

[00:16:02] Would it be an advantage if let's say we said, okay, pro master.

[00:16:05] There's only slots for 35 players.

[00:16:07] Something like that, which is probably still too many still too many, but something like

[00:16:14] that has been tried where they said the top 16 or whatever.

[00:16:17] I'm going to dig down into the roots even a little deeper here.

[00:16:22] How much of this and again, this is a topic Mark loves to talk about if I let him.

[00:16:27] And it's it's the fact that tournaments are still completely subsidized by entry fees

[00:16:33] right?

[00:16:34] How much does that factoring here to where you as a promoter prefer to have players ranked

[00:16:41] higher in order to get higher entry fees in order to shorten tournaments, et cetera?

[00:16:47] How much does that factor in?

[00:16:48] I mean, it's still a sport that is in Mark.

[00:16:50] I know you're probably tired of talking about it, but a but a but a sport that is completely

[00:16:55] subsidized, completely financed by the individual players themselves and their entry fees.

[00:17:01] I think you're going to run into this.

[00:17:02] This is symptomatic of that.

[00:17:03] I think there's other symptoms.

[00:17:05] And again, I was talking with somebody yesterday about talking foosball a little bit.

[00:17:10] And I said that, you know, I feel like that we're sort of a crux here.

[00:17:13] We're sort of in an area here where it thinks could go either way.

[00:17:17] You know, there what's going to happen?

[00:17:20] We need things need to be done.

[00:17:22] The independent federation, the independent points looking at a different way of doing

[00:17:26] tournaments from a financial point of view, not having them completely player subsidized,

[00:17:31] lining up a sponsorship.

[00:17:33] Even small sponsors, right?

[00:17:35] Which is doable.

[00:17:36] Big sponsors, not so much at this point, not until we do get a big federation.

[00:17:42] But a lot of it is symptomatic of this model that was created so long ago and has perpetuated

[00:17:47] long perhaps long after it should have.

[00:17:51] I don't know, Mark, you always have very strong opinions on this and you always really

[00:17:58] express them clearly.

[00:17:59] And so I'm going to turn it over to you.

[00:18:01] I'm going to speak out of both sides of my mouth.

[00:18:03] There's a very specific reason why.

[00:18:05] So I had compassion to your point, Jim, when you have a running of business and you don't

[00:18:11] have any competition necessarily or you could manage that competition, you do what you need

[00:18:16] to out of self preservation.

[00:18:18] You do what you need to do to grow your business.

[00:18:21] Even if it and I will speak to there might be limitations in that business acumen, there

[00:18:26] might not be the most innovative ways to manage that business.

[00:18:29] But we can all pretty much safely say, I don't even think it's just intuitive.

[00:18:35] The rankings expanded to create more opportunities to collect entry fees.

[00:18:41] Is there any mystery about that?

[00:18:42] Do we have five or six or seven different, you have 25 different events because it allows

[00:18:48] you to monetize the same people and what do you do when you have a regression, when

[00:18:53] you have a shrinking competitive player base and you still got to make this and you have

[00:18:57] inflation.

[00:18:58] So your expenses are going up and maybe you're not necessarily the most savvy at managing

[00:19:03] them down.

[00:19:04] You got less and less people to monetize, so you've got to collect more money from each

[00:19:08] person.

[00:19:09] And it speaks to the issue you spoke to Jim where you have, if you manage the point system

[00:19:14] and you are running this business and this business is predicated on the first like the

[00:19:19] first rule of self preservation, how is your business going to avoid bankruptcy?

[00:19:24] You got a pool of people that follow around the foosball tournament like a grateful dead

[00:19:28] concert.

[00:19:29] I mean, they're out there getting loaded.

[00:19:32] So and that's your regular player base.

[00:19:37] That's solved with competition.

[00:19:40] Now I think it speaks to another whole issue.

[00:19:43] There hasn't been the most entrepreneurial people coming into foosball to create, and there's

[00:19:49] two things about that right?

[00:19:50] Are you getting the most entrepreneurial people?

[00:19:52] And is the playing field level?

[00:19:55] Is there an equal opportunity to compete?

[00:19:58] And that hasn't been true either.

[00:19:59] And I'm not going to publicly disparage anyone right now.

[00:20:02] I'm speaking in broad terms about the facts of the way this business operates, but I will

[00:20:07] interject one thing.

[00:20:09] I alluded to something earlier about things I was working on with foosball and Jim is

[00:20:13] familiar with this and other people with inside foos are familiar with this.

[00:20:17] I raised a bunch of money for foosball.

[00:20:19] It wasn't sponsors.

[00:20:20] They were angel investors.

[00:20:22] And so what I did was pretty methodical and very calculated, and I'm fortunate that

[00:20:27] I had the pandemic to do it.

[00:20:28] My whole thing was can you use new video streaming platforms to create an entertainment style

[00:20:36] vehicle that you can sell?

[00:20:38] And I'm a sales guy right?

[00:20:40] And I'm fortunate also to be connected to people that are that listen to me for whatever

[00:20:43] God knows what reason they listen to me.

[00:20:45] Anyway here's what we did created the created the Thunderdome and started propositioning

[00:20:50] for this iron manifestation and the iron manifestation would be a episodic narrative

[00:20:57] tournament three episodes.

[00:20:59] And you do what Joe Hasling did with Joe Hasling he did is he used incredible editing and

[00:21:04] he used narrative and storytelling and he sold it to ESPN for advertising dollars.

[00:21:09] So what they do is you basically give you get your product at ESPN, they sign off

[00:21:13] minute.

[00:21:14] They give you advertising minutes and you sell the advertising minutes.

[00:21:17] You need a sales person and you need good entertaining story.

[00:21:21] That's what you need.

[00:21:22] And so I did that and I showed people the Thunderdome and I talked about the iron manifestation

[00:21:29] and I raised the shit ton of money, a lot of flip and money.

[00:21:32] So I will say this where sponsors to your point Jim sponsors something different.

[00:21:36] Sponsors are looking for a different type of return on your money but you could find

[00:21:38] angel investors and venture capitalists and you can get cash for certain ideas that's

[00:21:43] missing in Fuzball.

[00:21:44] I think it's sad.

[00:21:45] I think it's embarrassing that I could come in after like 20 years disassociated with

[00:21:50] the game.

[00:21:51] That's a mild exaggeration, but never, never associate with the game with the business

[00:21:54] acumen.

[00:21:55] I could come in and just like in like nine months.

[00:21:59] Why is it that I can figure out something in nine months?

[00:22:01] It's not because I'm some kind of I'm not Elon Musk for crying out loud.

[00:22:05] I barely got a communications degree in a small state city state called in California.

[00:22:09] Other people should be able to come into the sport figure out ways to drive capital

[00:22:12] and be competitive.

[00:22:14] Rant off someone else talk to you.

[00:22:16] I'm getting some content.

[00:22:17] Listen, listen Mark if you were Elon Musk, you could just fund the tour and we'd be cool

[00:22:22] but I think so.

[00:22:27] This is this is just again look I'm just a dummy.

[00:22:30] I like to play Fuzball.

[00:22:31] I think I think the biggest problem we have is the perception of Fuzball right because anybody

[00:22:37] I talk to and I have no problem telling anybody like I play Fuzball professionally.

[00:22:41] I love it right and they go.

[00:22:44] Fuzball yeah and the perception of Fuzball is not a you know, it's not and something that

[00:22:51] would be considered an Olympic event or something that somebody like I mean you look on ESPN

[00:22:56] and they're throwing bags at boards where in big bean patches on their shirts and they've

[00:23:01] got corporate sponsorship and and and were you know and people laugh at us because we're

[00:23:07] playing Fuzball and they're playing you know, a cornhole for big money and you know, so

[00:23:12] one I think it's the perception to and that has a lot to do with us.

[00:23:17] It's where the ones that are putting their perception out there.

[00:23:20] That's just my opinion.

[00:23:22] I don't drink I don't smoke you know, I don't party when I go to Fuzball I take it seriously

[00:23:28] and again I know it's different for everybody and I don't judge anybody.

[00:23:32] You live your life.

[00:23:33] Fuzball is different for everybody.

[00:23:34] I've said that on here before for some people it's a vacation, for some people it's a party

[00:23:38] for me.

[00:23:39] It's competition and that's why I go.

[00:23:42] And then the other point you made was the competition drives a market right and you know

[00:23:49] I've had my issues with the way Mary runs her business but at the end of the day it's

[00:23:53] her business right and I've told Donald you know, Donald said to me you know, you don't

[00:23:58] think Mary should make money no I absolutely like she keeps the tour going.

[00:24:04] I definitely like she works hard.

[00:24:07] She has a truck, she has overhead tables all that stuff.

[00:24:11] I just I don't like the way again I go and I play two events or three events and there's

[00:24:18] 45 events and I have to sit and wait and you know and I got to go to work the next day

[00:24:23] and I have to take time off like I just I don't like the approach towards me.

[00:24:28] I'm the one funding this thing and I know there's a whole room full of people that you have

[00:24:33] to keep happy but at the end of the day you know I'm invested 20 years in this thing

[00:24:38] plus so like I said it's just little things frustrate me as a consumer.

[00:24:45] Sometimes I'm not happy with the product and what you're saying is we need to figure

[00:24:53] out a way to fund it make it better all this stuff everybody has ideas but who's going

[00:24:58] to do the legwork because I can tell you look I work three jobs.

[00:25:01] I'm not going to be that guy.

[00:25:03] I'm not going to be that guy.

[00:25:05] You got to and you know when every you're talking I know you do occasionally Mark whenever

[00:25:09] you talk with the great Ken all well he has a very clear very clear vision of how things

[00:25:14] what I'm quote should be and for the most part he'll tell you he says that as it is now

[00:25:20] everything needs to be torn down.

[00:25:22] Torn down it needs to be started from scratch yeah and you need to put you don't put

[00:25:25] the cart before the horse you put that horse out there you create the infrastructure before

[00:25:29] anything before you even think about going after sponsors or television structure.

[00:25:34] You've got to put the structure in place and this is something we've been preaching.

[00:25:38] You know we don't there's two ways to look at it yes we could crash and burn start from

[00:25:43] the ashes rides like the Phoenix whatever and start doing it the right way or we can deal

[00:25:47] with what we have which is one person basically controlling the major championships and

[00:25:51] a bunch of satellite promoters who are kind of following the company line and not really

[00:25:56] taking a lot of chances.

[00:25:58] So if we're going to stay with the status quo then I would I would implore independent promoters

[00:26:05] out there to think outside the box do something a little different.

[00:26:09] Try the Swiss system try a different system try other things let's get out there use

[00:26:14] our imaginations and you're going to run into challenges as somebody who has involved

[00:26:18] been involved with the sport very intimately for 30 plus years through inside foods how

[00:26:23] many people have I seen come along and say well got this great idea we're going to do

[00:26:27] this we're going to do that it's going to be this great tournament we're going to have

[00:26:30] the media we're going to you know really treat the pro masters well blah blah blah et cetera

[00:26:35] we're going to get you there Jim and then they run into an obstacle a challenge which is inevitable

[00:26:40] right after that first tournament maybe they don't get the turn out they expected or whatever

[00:26:44] and then they're gone and I've seen literally hundreds of people come along with the stars

[00:26:51] in their eyes who a year later had disappeared or had just become players again or whatever

[00:26:57] and then they're going to interject something there because that speaks to me I don't want to

[00:27:02] just be too disruptive yes I do I want to be distracted listen all right no here's where I'm

[00:27:10] going to challenge every promoter out there okay first of all one of the weaknesses and all these

[00:27:15] business ideas is the value proposition I did a very simple thing I created a lucrative value

[00:27:22] proposition and sold it what I sold was playing more foosball than you've ever played with more

[00:27:27] different people than you're ever going to play with and is it worth your 400 bucks to do it

[00:27:32] and guess what 64 people gave me 400 bucks each to do it then I got a list waiting list after

[00:27:39] that as well and people in people like people think that they didn't like if I was in the business

[00:27:45] if I was in the business throwing foosball that tournament made five grand by the way and we've got

[00:27:48] a foosball table tornado sponsored a foosball table for that event now if I was in the business it

[00:27:54] was it was profitable by five grand if I was in the business with throwing foosball tournaments

[00:27:59] you know 16 tables I'm just gonna go on and on 16 tables I got sponsors everything if I was

[00:28:05] in the business throwing foosball tournaments I could have done that five times a year made 25 grand

[00:28:11] but that wasn't my business and Mary was freaking out and Donald they were all like what are you doing

[00:28:15] and I'm like just I was being honest I'm not I don't care about running a tour I'm doing something

[00:28:20] completely different going back to the idea of creating a format that would be interesting and

[00:28:25] entertaining to watch but these ideas are not like you need a salesperson you need someone who

[00:28:32] can market it you need someone who could help push it but after that it's just like it's just

[00:28:36] like the legwork and this is people will pay for something I've proven it people will pay for

[00:28:42] something new in novel like if I say you're gonna pay play 36 matches guaranteed with the

[00:28:46] opportunity to win 10 grand as a flipping amateur or rookie Evan how much I think I think Evan won

[00:28:54] I think Evan won seven grand and then he won seven thousand he'll like seven grand and then he won

[00:28:59] like four five grand the smaller tournament I didn't I didn't get behind as well as too busy

[00:29:03] and they left the beat the Tommy and Rob Cadele were left pushing it I wasn't even attached to it

[00:29:10] but I could fill that bracket so I did the invitations I was gonna do the Iron Man

[00:29:14] invitational Tony moved a bunch of nonsense doesn't matter I'm in two and in in one day I had like

[00:29:22] 15 masters signed up for the tournament I I Fred who's who's gonna see what's gonna say no

[00:29:27] but I'm like Fred I'll pay for your interviews I'll pay for your flight pay for your hotel I know

[00:29:31] what's gonna say no but at least I was tall on the floor with Fred Rico and I've all these masters

[00:29:35] waiting to come in that tournament you can do it and so Jim when you're talking about

[00:29:40] if I was a promoter I wouldn't have flamed out I'm not a foosball tournament promoter these ideas

[00:29:45] and go ahead that would have killed you go on you actually you actually made money on it there's

[00:29:49] a word of mouth on that tournament even even for me it's maybe you were there citing fun tournament

[00:29:55] I've worked in the last five or six years it was tremendous it was great competition there was

[00:30:00] no pros and so that was basically the test for what could have been like it says a master version

[00:30:05] of that and then with with the camera in the background kind of following players doing the

[00:30:09] the reality shows sort of angle on it as well and it it certainly had legs and certainly

[00:30:15] it's something different something that excited the foosball world and and that's kind of what I'm

[00:30:20] saying we need more of that we need to think more along the lines of what could be and instead

[00:30:25] of what has been in what is basically a stale kind of format for for so long there is no

[00:30:31] other sport in the world still using double elimination very few sports in the world if any are

[00:30:36] completely subsidized by player entry fees a very few sports in the world have and again no

[00:30:43] disrespected Donald Wilson or anyone else but it's not a strong federation it isn't and it needs to

[00:30:48] be and these are the ingredients that we're going to need or we're just going to slowly decay and

[00:30:55] decay until it's just gone and and unfortunately if somebody who has seen the patterns for

[00:31:04] my involvement which is now pushing what 45 years the pattern doesn't look good right now it doesn't

[00:31:12] and it's some things have to happen hopefully by choice rather than by half-tos right

[00:31:19] well and again with the with the point system another thing like now they're widening widening it

[00:31:25] and doing all these things because the autumn necessity and I understand but

[00:31:31] and I've said this for a long time and I feel like it's been this way for a long time but there's no

[00:31:35] incentive to want to improve and move up right like you become a pro you pay more you play less you

[00:31:41] become a master you pay more and you play way less you get you know three events you get singles

[00:31:46] doubles mixed and then maybe designated or a dyp year but at the end of the day it's like you know

[00:31:55] you put in you put in the work you practice you tour you play your locals to achieve this status

[00:32:03] in this game that we love and you get nothing you get you get a title right like you said

[00:32:10] mock you get you know it's this construct but in reality you're being penalized and reality

[00:32:19] you're being penalized so I mean how many people have have gone up become a pro in quitter become

[00:32:25] a master in quit and because they see no incentive right there's no financial incentive there's

[00:32:30] no because again we're the one subsidizing the tour I can look Tom I'll say his name Kevin Walker

[00:32:36] Kevin Walker I've known Kevin Walker since I was a rookie Kevin was great great player one

[00:32:43] every level became a master stop touring stop touring he said I'm not gonna pay more

[00:32:50] to play less and then have to compete with Ryan Billy Tony all these other guys to try and you know

[00:32:56] win and break even when it's just not going to happen and that was it he was done turn master never

[00:33:02] came back out so on that point and I think that's that's a valid point especially because I know Kevin

[00:33:07] well I think if there had been a structure in place where Kevin Walker or whoever makes pro master

[00:33:14] can say okay now you're in line for a certain number of sponsors are going to want you to wear their

[00:33:20] their logo when you go to a tournament you're gonna get paid for sponsorships to to just to show up

[00:33:27] your hotel and your air flight all that's taken care of you're there to compete and if you do well

[00:33:33] you do well if you don't you don't but it's like you know the golf tour you see that you see the

[00:33:38] masters out on the out on the the the the tour and they're playing various tournaments along the way

[00:33:45] some of the majors and occasional minors but they're there because they're they're being sponsored by

[00:33:51] these bigger corporations and they're there because they want to compete against the best and

[00:33:56] they aspire to this because they if they get to that level they know that at least they can break even

[00:34:02] and you know yeah you remove the financial burden but then I think that's why another reason

[00:34:08] that master status should be limited to a certain number of players right because the majority of

[00:34:14] the players supporting the tour are at the bottom right so if you make master the top 10 16 whatever it

[00:34:20] is and you just say if you're a master you don't pay entry fees right you know and again it's not my

[00:34:25] tour I can't make that decision but I'm saying like you know what what do you get for all that work

[00:34:31] you should get something yeah I just feel like no for sure but but for me a master and Omar

[00:34:37] because we've sort of sort of tried to categorize it over the years but for me a master player is someone

[00:34:42] who has a very good chance of finishing in the top three at a major championship at any given time

[00:34:48] you know whatever that number is but there are a major there are master players now who do not

[00:34:55] have that chance there are master players that exist who are never going to take the third place

[00:35:00] finish at a major championship on the other thing too yeah would you consider nationals a major

[00:35:08] it's only a name the nationals which I was at last year and 150 players or so

[00:35:15] no it was not a major championship I was just checking my name it is and until it isn't so I would

[00:35:20] say it is until kind of isn't and okay so tell you close to not being there technically it is

[00:35:26] technically yeah okay I took third and open doubles at nationals a couple years ago just so you

[00:35:35] everybody everybody everybody was in France everybody was in France

[00:35:39] so there was nobody there no problem got it covered sorry yeah I have any other thing you talk

[00:35:45] about the golf tour you know they have the advantage of numbers of course yeah of course an incredible

[00:35:49] number of golfers in this country and around the world and when you have that you're going to have

[00:35:54] financial opportunities through commercial sponsorship etc that's that's gonna happen again

[00:35:59] we're putting out the card ahead of the horse a little bit on that one as well things have to

[00:36:03] happen wavle for that before we get to a point where we can do that yeah do the structure

[00:36:07] touch on that let me touch on that in a way that we might not all agree I told you I had to do work

[00:36:13] I just sell I just sell the friends of mine with a lot of money which is difficult because when

[00:36:17] your friends when you're selling to your friends that have a lot of money you don't want to fail

[00:36:21] them because their friendship is there and so these are you know people that I've started businesses with

[00:36:27] and and I'm selling to them but they're not fools so they're not they're doing their they're doing

[00:36:33] their own research you're doing their own vetting and um I want you to imagine that any sport

[00:36:41] does take tennis tennis I want you to imagine tennis but you could only see the players arms ever

[00:36:48] you never can really see their bodies you can never see imagine you can only see their arms imagine

[00:36:54] that um I mean it only people who will watch tennis and you can only see their arms are the

[00:37:00] purists the purists will watch it because they see different things than what other people. Yeah let me

[00:37:05] let me let me rebut that just in this case please um go and we have certainly regressed production

[00:37:11] wise despite the advancements in technology who's well coverage has regressed okay for me always

[00:37:18] it was always a matter of as much as possible getting that camera off the table and on the individuals

[00:37:23] that were competing because we know that that's what it's about it's about their stories it's about

[00:37:27] their approaches to the game it's about their energy on the table it's about rivalries it's

[00:37:31] about those personalities it's let me validate you let me validate you I'm not going to disarm that

[00:37:35] because that's absolutely true but if you're not a purist so my whole thing was how do we get

[00:37:41] x number of people watching and retaining them for at least three minutes how do you get people

[00:37:46] to retain them for x amount of time and an inherent issue with foosball that doesn't exist with

[00:37:53] other like even cornhole every pickleball all these things have competitive advantages over foosball

[00:37:59] for viewership because foosball at its root level is a high speed incredibly technical sport played

[00:38:08] in a very micro area with like and we we disarmed our own entertainment value because of our rules

[00:38:17] and I I'm not going to beat this horse because I've been beating it for years but one of the issues

[00:38:21] that the people that I was trying to sell the foosball were they were like how do how does anyone

[00:38:27] watch this and they wanted to know how many foosers would watch it because that's your starting point

[00:38:31] because the foosers are the purists and even foosers have problems watching foosball for certain

[00:38:36] duration I mean you got to be like the diet we all know the diet hard foos like Tommy Atkinson he'll

[00:38:40] be there at 4 a.m. watching a foosball match but most foosers have a hard time stomaching a ton of

[00:38:47] watching foosball the matches are super low and when you when you start taking someone who's never

[00:38:52] seeing foosball before you could do anything you want man if you show them a foosball table and you

[00:38:56] have like ball tracking and slow mo and all that other shit without the human element it still doesn't

[00:39:02] matter right so then okay what's the best you can do is the best you can do people completely stoic

[00:39:08] unflinching unmoving statuesque that between balls might be minorly celebratory

[00:39:15] it's was still impossible to self-fuse ball so we're talking about sponsors we're talking about

[00:39:19] a fundamental issue with our sport people view it and a lot of foosers don't like this but I'm

[00:39:23] just gonna tell you I've had someone say they called foosers a bunch of p.u.s.s.s. wise i.e.s.s and said

[00:39:33] your bunch of p.u.s.s and you got why how did you guys turn this toy into a sport

[00:39:39] and i'm a fooser a lifelong fooser so very difficult to like manage that dialogue and say well

[00:39:45] you got to understand there's a lot of emotion there's a lot of intent behind it there's a lot

[00:39:49] behind it do we have someone joining us anyway looks like it that's my rant yeah Donald Donald Wilson

[00:39:54] just texted me and asked if he could jump on you want to know if you could send him a link so he

[00:39:58] could jump on I think he's here I think he's already here it looks like we've got somebody out

[00:40:03] on your camera homes let's go Jim wants a p.u. are you with us?

[00:40:10] you know hear me there he is there he is there he is how's it going let's go welcome back

[00:40:17] how y'all doing doing great what's what's happening Donald I'm doing great

[00:40:23] I want to see your handsome face yeah where's your face bro

[00:40:27] there we go

[00:40:33] there he is what's up don't answer how you know i just been doing a little work around the house

[00:40:38] today I love how those across with the light right above it like you're like I can just go

[00:40:44] right into that light and be feeling the joy dude hey Jim how you doing how are you good to see

[00:40:53] don't get so don't you've been hearing the discussion I'm sure when it comes to no I just I just

[00:41:02] just uh no I haven't I just okay I'm fresh I just just said hey I want to get on the radio

[00:41:09] so here I am there you go and you are on but we were we're taking our shirts off everybody's

[00:41:14] taking their shirts off in like two minutes so you're ready you're ready to you're ready

[00:41:19] oh I'm already about to shirt

[00:41:24] well I got I've got two pieces of business I want to address real quick here and nothing to do with

[00:41:29] that first of all my beer oh which we did not do tonight there it is the the biggest the most

[00:41:35] successful part of a foos talk live for so many years has been taken away the IPA of the week

[00:41:41] there it is heady topper from vermont brand new so from vermont this is the heady topper the

[00:41:48] finest beer in the history of the world uh which I am enjoying that's number one but I also don't

[00:41:52] want I'm before we maybe talk to Don a little bit um and continue that discussion but I don't

[00:41:57] want to I don't want to get too far past the recent holofame induction announcement and of course

[00:42:02] I've been a part of that um the holofame for many years um Steve Murray and I kind of

[00:42:08] rejuvenated it back in 1995 um ran the holofame for years and of course still a voter and still

[00:42:15] host that ceremony but I thought it was a really interesting result this year for for a number

[00:42:22] of reasons first of all we get a guy in there who was number 40 on our list of the top 50 all-time

[00:42:28] greatest players on the American tour finally getting in world champion uh bombaloni who finished

[00:42:33] second in open singles at the very last tournament soccer tournament in 1981 to the big crash and

[00:42:38] burn in Chicago he lost to Horton in the final um one uh the dynamo open doubles world championship

[00:42:45] in 1987 with with toddler fraydo um a guy that sort of changed the way people people looked at the

[00:42:51] game he played it a little differently using an opposite wall passing series and and a class act on

[00:42:56] and off the table so you know we've been we've been talking about it we I've narrowed it down to where

[00:43:01] there are two people left who need to go on the holofame who aren't in rather it's only one

[00:43:05] gust of you know and jorphino is the other uh me the man I still think stacey fallor needs to go in

[00:43:10] as well but after that and out the here's the other interesting thing is guess who turns 40 later this

[00:43:15] year uh really bad miss silly so and once you turn 40 become eligible to get in the holofame so

[00:43:22] but those are the only two for me there's only two men left where meloni and traveno

[00:43:27] hey wants their little fire we got right in here yesterday at least they're a little fire in your

[00:43:30] panties Paul Reynolds oh yeah I did do that Paul Reynolds yeah Paul let me let me let me ask you

[00:43:38] question let me ask you question does not have does not have yeah ask me a question doll um back

[00:43:45] I saw some on facebook uh is that he on playing in a five big finals of uh

[00:43:52] Martin uh get's Rick Martin open singles as poster they all had posters then some of those

[00:43:56] post uh there's a there's a whole thing about which whose posters were the most popular

[00:44:00] who was the most hot one that match who won that match who won that man Rick Martin won that man come on dude

[00:44:05] Paul Reynolds Reynolds never won a major championship okay never won a major championship

[00:44:10] he's a big argument is and I like Paul and every time I see him we're poor children we see each

[00:44:15] other but his big thing is that he was the the leading money winner on the tour for half a

[00:44:21] season back in 1980 or 79 or whatever and and I don't think that was enough well record isn't

[00:44:28] there the record is not there in the lung jabers and there I'm sorry Paul but it isn't and let me

[00:44:33] give you some fire Jim let me give some so I'm no Paul Reynolds apologies I just like the fire

[00:44:37] let me just pour some gasoline on the fire so let's talk about how every single era the top

[00:44:43] players quit at the peak of their ability leaving a weaker less mentally tough less physically

[00:44:49] skilled player base to succeed it and when Paul Reynolds was like beating the top 10 players

[00:44:55] during those like 78 and 79 it was one of the most competitive so how do you stack up a really crappy

[00:45:02] 2021-22 with three people that can win the tournament to a time or two year period when there was

[00:45:09] 30 guys that can win the event and it would the competitiveness and money was off the charts how do

[00:45:14] you create a comparison between that how do you do it yeah it's not easy of course and that's

[00:45:20] part of what makes voting for multi generational players so difficult and we ran into that with our

[00:45:26] top 50 right how much green stew give the longevity how much greens do you give to success in that

[00:45:30] six year period of the T.S. tour what about you know other aspects on and off the table the sort

[00:45:36] of approaches to it as well for me and there's others disagree from me Paul Reynolds is not a hall

[00:45:41] a favor as much as he would like to be he is not in my opinion but I don't know I was asking about

[00:45:56] that picture I mean I thought that that's pretty famous pictures on a book and and I didn't know who

[00:46:00] won that's why I was asking yeah the crowd and it was it was Rick Martin you know that about it but

[00:46:06] how do you you know how do you quantify it and we're running into that baseball hall of fame you

[00:46:10] know with Todd Hilton going in he spent all of his entire career playing for the Rockies

[00:46:14] and in so his numbers were higher than they would have been perhaps if you had a plate for a team at

[00:46:18] sea level and and so how do you judge that yeah one of the ways one of the ways that you look at it

[00:46:25] is what is he ever the best player in the sport you know for even for even a six month period did

[00:46:31] you ever think of him as the best player that's a no-brainer then yes did we ever look at Paul Reynolds as

[00:46:36] the best player in the sport no did we ever look at him as top ten player in the sport maybe for

[00:46:41] a short period of time we did but all in all and I'm a proponent of being the best of the best not

[00:46:49] just you know the best and baseball is running into this issue now where maybe some guys going in

[00:46:54] that in the past would not have but for me and that could change moving forward there are actually

[00:46:59] other players I would put in ahead of him we said Gustaveen oh but if you start and I want to hear

[00:47:04] Randy next if you're going to start scraping the barrel dude like scraping the barrel you get some of

[00:47:10] my friends who have no business in there like dude I'm not gonna say names but like some of my

[00:47:15] friends who have great second and third place wishes who are maybe top three in the world at some

[00:47:19] point I mean you start looking for you start you be basically got to stop inducting until the

[00:47:24] Billy and Ryan and Tony already go ahead again no again like I'm biased I'm super biased but Billy's

[00:47:31] gonna be 40 and I'm I think Billy is one of the only people on the planet that you could put in

[00:47:38] on any table in any generation yeah when he's the one second greatest multi table player of all time

[00:47:44] no doubt he is a first ballot hall of favor and that's the other thing how many players are a first

[00:47:48] ballot hall of favor which is a big deal you get in on your first time on the ballot that's something

[00:47:53] and there's only been a few players who have done that in Fuzball right um I just spent two days

[00:47:58] with Billy and I told him he couldn't I said Billy here's your problem he couldn't what he couldn't

[00:48:03] what I'll tell you in a second so we were like me and Lewis were in a bar for two days and basically

[00:48:11] this idea that you could drop players off in any era and they'd be successful well you know you

[00:48:17] spent enough time on the phone with Ken all well and he'll tell you a story about Tala Frado

[00:48:22] coming on the scene winning doubles with his um his uh hesitation wall pass and then they just

[00:48:29] took that dude's game away like he was because you know what these players were spending hours

[00:48:34] now the smarter players were winning back then like the the mental acumen and like the mental toughness

[00:48:41] and the calculation you take someone like um holy shit who's the singles stud who we had on the show

[00:48:47] before the guy who won three singles championships in a row no not not that they can't Dan Kaiser

[00:48:52] Dan Kaiser okay Dan Kaiser you take a guy like Dan Kaiser who in terms of physical ability was like

[00:48:59] in the middle to bottom wrong every rod five bar three bar he was like average but the mental

[00:49:06] the mental toughness was so high and the mental skill several skill and so so so high it can't it

[00:49:12] calibrated all that talent and there were guys just like on T.S. they could do anything on the table

[00:49:16] they could do anything all this physical ability so I say that um I would go back to this

[00:49:21] succession ability dude I've no ability forever right he gives like you do anything you could do

[00:49:25] anything easily but I think there's a lot of smart players and it makes it a lot tougher than people

[00:49:30] think I think he he's a first battle of favor he's got four singles championships in six years

[00:49:35] I just don't believe in this dropping people in different eras thing you know I don't think

[00:49:39] they're I don't think it's true and it's not even the four and six it's the four in the field like

[00:49:45] he be he be he'd read he was beating Tony yeah he be Ryan yeah like Ryan Ryan Ryan won his first one

[00:49:52] in 2010 I was there and he smoked Billy I remember Billy looked like he was taking a nap

[00:49:57] and then the next year Billy came back and devastated Ryan demolished Ryan so Billy and

[00:50:04] and what you're saying with the mental part like again I I've known Billy a long time just

[00:50:08] like you've known Billy a long time Billy Billy physically matured quickly and then the mental

[00:50:15] came later like it wasn't really until like 2004 five that Billy his brain caught up with this

[00:50:21] physical ability yeah I agree so you know and now and now I think he's you know he if you if

[00:50:28] you ask like I talked to but he's like I suck I suck I'm like dude you're you're you're a moron

[00:50:33] you're still better than yeah he's a he's so on his own head he saw bad so bad so bad but

[00:50:39] here's the thing he's like a savant with it oh yeah no question when he wants to be right yeah

[00:50:45] I mean he's a guy there was a period there where we would always say he could he could come here

[00:50:48] he could win or he could finish 64th that that it just depending and yeah there's a reason why

[00:50:54] you know he's in the number two I don't think there's any question he's the second best multi-table

[00:50:58] player uh in the history of the sport rob ather would be number third obviously number one

[00:51:02] he has Fred Rico but he a Billy Pappas finish number 10 on our list of top 50 and you say

[00:51:08] really he should you know base out his talent based on the fact that he went to four world

[00:51:13] championships against those guys he beat everybody um he should be higher than that but he really

[00:51:19] do much beyond that the consistency wasn't there yeah at one point he went completely away from

[00:51:24] the tornado table and only played in Europe where he had a lot of success because he's you know

[00:51:28] his game fits on those tables so well but um you know there are reasons for that yet still despite all

[00:51:34] that um despite the fact that probably he should have done more he still is going to be an easy

[00:51:40] first ball it should be a unanimous homelain selection I would think next year which means Gus is

[00:51:45] gonna get pushed back uh maybe a little bit of course then after that here comes Tony the year

[00:51:49] after that yeah that's being eligible so um you have to tell me so we've got some names coming up

[00:51:54] because we've just about in my opinion at least and I am a voter um we've just about run out of

[00:51:59] male players in particular still a couple of ladies I think that we could we could get in there

[00:52:03] fairly um but by then speaking of ladies you know we talked about Bommaloni the great great player

[00:52:08] from the T.S. and Dynamo era um you know and we've talked about this lady on the show as well

[00:52:14] there are uh the city head won something like 5,000 world championships all right second place

[00:52:19] was Tina Roton um I think about 11 they're in place all time on the American tour for world

[00:52:24] championships is Joyce Steward yeah she has 10 open world championships five of those came with

[00:52:33] Frederic Collin-Jone three of those in a row came with Moia Teelens and then she got two more

[00:52:39] the late um and the late 2000s with Jan Jan Maynard Jan Alice right yeah 10 world championship

[00:52:49] titles say what you will you look who she played with of course three of the three great players

[00:52:53] Jan was a great player Frederico you know um Moia um and so um but still you win 10 world championships

[00:53:03] you're doing something right then she did she was super consistent great teammate um the player

[00:53:08] who could get you get some goals when you needed them and so she also of course will be inducted

[00:53:13] in in Las Vegas this year as as the lady and I don't think anybody's gonna have a problem with that

[00:53:17] there's gonna be smiles all around she was a very well-liked individual and obviously well deserving

[00:53:22] of polypane induction what that promoter if the third person go ahead of all is this gonna be an

[00:53:29] interesting um of acceptance speech isn't it um depending on your own interest

[00:53:37] our old friend no I don't know who I don't know who it'll be maybe maybe Trevor

[00:53:41] for someone but I want to be Tommy I want Tommy Edgis in the intro oh let's not go there

[00:53:47] yeah that's okay that's okay um thanks Mark um but no Brandon Flaherty a guy that um that I've known

[00:53:56] since um we both started playing in in Southern California way back when back when he had a lot of

[00:54:00] hair um in a big natural 1979 and I mentioned this earlier that you know that and during that time

[00:54:08] period there were only a couple of divisions well he won the novice doubles world championship

[00:54:12] in 1979 wow to come five thousand dollars for that oh that was a five thousand dollar payday

[00:54:19] let's go winning 79 double seven seventy nine it was like fifteen or twenty thousand dollars

[00:54:23] and seven exactly so yeah and he turned around turn that into a trading card company and eventually

[00:54:29] into warrior golf and table soccer um but a guy that you know with the warrior with the warrior

[00:54:36] tour what he did you know think it outside the box a little bit like we talked about earlier

[00:54:40] he was a guy that used the Swiss system first in this country he was a guy that did

[00:54:45] went at it from a little different angle um you know a lot of it based of course on table sales

[00:54:49] it was it was his business but but his tour events also were super fun they weren't huge

[00:54:54] but they were a lot of fun to go to there was Swiss system to where you had time to do things at

[00:54:58] the end of the day as we've talked about but I think Brendan who has always been so generous with

[00:55:04] the football players um you know despite some some blip some the radar here and there during the

[00:55:10] course of his career which we will not detail maybe a little later in the show depends on

[00:55:15] this is what's let's let's detail him let's get into my love to know please um what it was

[00:55:20] a period of time when I was worried about what something Brendan did for us one time he uh he furnished

[00:55:27] us all with uniforms when we went to Georgia I mean we went to uh Germany yeah yeah okay

[00:55:36] everyone of us and he coached the the junior team as well um yeah it was awesome so he was

[00:55:42] given say what you're all about him his speech is going to be really interesting at least the parts

[00:55:47] you can understand and but he is um he has a guy that has given back to the sport time again and

[00:55:53] I'm really happy I have voted for him for the last two or three years and I'm really happy

[00:55:57] that Brendan Flerty uh is going to be inducted as well so you've got uh you know you've got Bob

[00:56:02] Alone you've got Joyce Stewart and you've got Brandon Flerty all of them with very interesting stories

[00:56:07] awesome yeah Brendan like I said 2015 he uh he had a tournament at Fenway he got the socks

[00:56:15] to hook us up we paid entry fees we got to have a tournament at Fenway Park and then we all got to

[00:56:21] um stick around and watch the game we got to get on the field walk the grass it was it was super

[00:56:26] cool man he came out he brought a bunch of warrior tables uh gave away a table to the winner him

[00:56:31] and Trevor came out and played um it was it was a good time it was a really good time so I remember that

[00:56:37] and he also you know before he you know had to worry your golf forever and then warrior

[00:56:42] table soccer in the late 2000s but when I when I first visited him he ran a a trading card company

[00:56:50] where he actually treated baseball and football and basketball trading cards kind of like stocks

[00:56:54] would would buy and sell them and I went into his office one time and he had this he big huge safe

[00:57:00] right this big giant just saving his Stevens check this out check this out Steven so I know

[00:57:04] you're a big baseball fan check this out and he you know we'll opened up the opened up the the

[00:57:08] the safe and he said check this out he pulls out a tie-cob rookie card what wow tie-cob rookie card

[00:57:16] right it's from like 1903 wow and he's asked even 10 things worth like you know $150,000 and this

[00:57:22] is like in 2002 back then yes yeah and so but it was in all these cards compiling out it's

[00:57:28] my 10 Williams you know rookie card baby Ruth got this one this is signed when he was with the red

[00:57:32] socks you know oh no oh my god with the red socks yeah yeah so yeah so it was but it was this

[00:57:39] is this is Brendan Flaredy though Brendan goes big right he goes big on stuff he's he's gonna

[00:57:44] he's gonna push it he's gonna go out there and and and push that envelope and and so I think

[00:57:49] that's also part of the reason that he has made such an impact such a memorable character no doubt

[00:57:54] but if you ever went to a warrior tournament I can guarantee you he took great care of you

[00:57:59] you know I love about why he's absolutely a Hall of Fame promoter so we talked in the beginning

[00:58:05] this show we talked about people on their journeys and if you look at foosball is um you look at

[00:58:10] people the way you look at the way people play foosball and you see their personalities manifest in

[00:58:16] the way they stand and the way they hold the rods and the way they move and when they talk foosball

[00:58:21] is as canvas for your personality you could see someone's personality when they're playing the sport

[00:58:25] right and you could see people's personalities in the way they promote the sport you can see

[00:58:30] they're personally you can see their identity in the way they project in the way they commit in

[00:58:35] the way they execute and you know people are all in their spectrum of skill set and personality

[00:58:41] and identity and look at what Brendan did so Brendan is a was or is uh a little debate about where he

[00:58:47] is now but he's a multi-millionaire who love foosball as a child right multi-millionaire

[00:58:52] less was well as a child and decides I love foosball I'm doing stuff with foosball starts making

[00:58:57] foosball tables and throwing tournaments there is his party and this this is Brendan's party like

[00:59:02] whether or not the endgame was actually to make millions from foosball is highly debatable

[00:59:06] because he was throwing his foosball tournaments and people were having a hell of a time he was

[00:59:09] throwing them everywhere Hawaii right because golf courses he was he foosball was his party

[00:59:16] and it was his party and people were going to his party and having a great time and yeah he was

[00:59:20] being novel and he was doing some entrepreneurial stuff with it ultimately it was Brendan's personality

[00:59:26] being projected in his business style and that's and he and people were the recipient of a great

[00:59:32] memorable time I mean Jim still refers to his Hawaii tournament as probably most scenic

[00:59:37] and probably one of the one of the top 10 best dates you ever had with your bride to be right Jim

[00:59:42] this was a guy who created memories all over and that's I mean that's deserving of a of a hollow

[00:59:47] fame promoter career I remember that Vegas tournament he threw in the early 2000s I didn't get

[00:59:52] to go I wanted to go but it was like a 250 grander man the trophies were like six feet tall

[01:00:00] oh it was huge I remember that's one it was yeah it was crazy I didn't get to go and I heard

[01:00:05] the turnout wasn't really amazing I think I think Fred went there and cleaned up one everything

[01:00:10] but how many promoters are capable of losing 150,000 dollars on a tournament

[01:00:15] right which is what he did yeah yeah didn't blink didn't blink

[01:00:19] yeah man thank you so but here's a tale of two promoters people don't know this Farid Loonis

[01:00:25] who is the chair executive committee member the ITSF that guy's a movie producer

[01:00:31] yeah guys got more money than probably anyone I know infusible he's got as much more money

[01:00:38] and his personality is a little bit different and his style and the way he manages stuff and the way

[01:00:43] executes and then so it's just you could see people you could see their identities in the way

[01:00:50] they manage the food well business interesting you know we we are always kind of wondering who

[01:00:54] the next promoter to go into the hollow fame is why would we not put Farid Loonis in the American

[01:00:58] Hall of Fame hmm the impact that he has had on on the sport here with the United States participating

[01:01:06] internationally um I think it's something we would look at in the future for sure or would we put

[01:01:11] Yonic Kareya for his um I mean it's an international hall of fame I don't know where but is it an

[01:01:18] international hall of fame it's not a new no yeah it's based on what you do for the American

[01:01:21] two okay well then I'm on the American tour for the American tour but Farid has certainly been

[01:01:26] using yeah I think so here in this country as well so interesting interesting debate what do

[01:01:31] you think Donald do you think Farid should be in the um how the Hall of Fame for the American Hall of

[01:01:36] Fame well as a matter of fact since you brought this up we have been talking with Farid here recently

[01:01:42] on and off the last three four weeks and couple months and he said that ITSS has um

[01:01:50] decided to work with USA closely this year I mean they said they choose different countries

[01:01:55] to do that and he said USA is the one he wants to do it with and so we've been kind of communicating

[01:02:01] with him a great bit here lately so uh yeah he wants to see Fouce Ball get better everywhere because

[01:02:06] if it's better everywhere it's better for them you know so yeah he's he's always understood

[01:02:13] the importance of the American market as well and just the image of America internationally I think

[01:02:18] he understands that uh not always specifically but generally he really does now it would be great

[01:02:24] it would be an amazing thing to it's you know someday to be able to have a a tornado world series

[01:02:29] event here in this country um something that would bring international attention to the sport

[01:02:34] here being played here so who knows that would be something that would be it would be pretty special

[01:02:38] I know I would I would love to be uh certainly on my short bucket list of things I haven't done

[01:02:42] in Fouce Ball so that would that would certainly be one of them over the decades of of this sport

[01:02:47] existing I mean how many promoters rise to that level I'm many right no uh not a lot and again

[01:02:56] it's like what if we how many can sustain it how many can get through those early obstacles and

[01:03:00] challenges and and become consistent you know we put in Charles Mackintosh a year or two ago

[01:03:05] and a guy who has been around the sport it's so very long um but it's tough you know um

[01:03:11] and a lot of the top players Steve Murray one of the great promoters though that we've ever had

[01:03:15] in this country well he's already in the Hall of Fame as a player do we put him in also as a

[01:03:19] as a promoter okay maybe they do we do you look at you look at Eric Clapton's in their in the

[01:03:24] Brock and Roll Hall if I'm fame like three times three times yes so so maybe maybe we look at

[01:03:31] it but again it's a sustainability it's it's being able to be consistent to get out there

[01:03:36] and and prove yourself to be a a promoter over a number of years and that is proven to be difficult

[01:03:41] for for a lot of promoters here in in this country well Jim as a voter you got a list I don't know

[01:03:46] if you're at Liberty Liberty to maybe you can't I should ask the question it's probably an anonymous

[01:03:50] list if I'm not it yeah I what is what is the question who the who the voters or the other who

[01:03:56] who did Brendan beat out see I don't I don't have access to that I it was not it was not released

[01:04:04] um there are others on the ballot and so maybe we could we could have a look at that one

[01:04:07] about can you speak to who else are you able to speak to who's on the ballot yeah this is all

[01:04:10] public this is all public knowledge okay great um and um let's see here um well Joe

[01:04:17] Carthy who was a um from the from the 70s George Petra Helos from the 70s John Gilleland

[01:04:23] Jim Zellick uh here's another one there was someone that yeah these are all a promoter from the 70s

[01:04:29] who were impactful over that period of time but again any challenges they ran into there was

[01:04:33] money to overcome them right and and player based numbers to overcome any of their challenges

[01:04:37] and so um but here's another one I think that we're going to look at very closely next year

[01:04:42] and someone I think I know who received votes this year and that's Alan Crippes who really is the

[01:04:47] the king of Bonsini Fuzball here in the United States um and while it is very regional it's

[01:04:52] basically Virginia North South and North and South Carolina down in that area where you're

[01:04:58] predominantly see um you know uh Bonsini being played still he has done a great job with it over

[01:05:02] the years and has been so impactful here's another bit of trivia about Alan Crippes he was the

[01:05:07] coach of the 2006 United States World Cup team uh the night the Fuzball's finest moment that night

[01:05:13] Saturday night in in in himber germany when they face France in that four-hour match he was the

[01:05:19] coach on the sidelines calling the shots wow and so um there you have it so another guy to look at

[01:05:24] in the future perhaps uh as a promoter hey Jim I think Mark was wanting to know if he was on the list

[01:05:31] Mark Mark um if I keep scrolling down alphabetically let me tell you let me tell you how a little

[01:05:37] money there is in Fuzball for probably four hundred dollars I could get four votes onto the Hall of

[01:05:43] Fame I mean that's how little money you could eat I'm guessing eight bucks give you one

[01:05:49] hello uh that's not a problem yeah um so question from our twitch tv audience uh and thanks for

[01:05:56] tuning on twitch tv Fuzchess wants to know is Larry Davis on the ballot uh Larry it should be on

[01:06:03] the ballot and another guy he did not see him listed on the issues ballot but another guy who was so

[01:06:07] influential with USA Fuzball uh in head of the federation for a number of years so he is another guy I

[01:06:13] think that we would need to really look at moving forward yeah and we get to see Larry Larry shows up

[01:06:20] in Colorado and he has such a Fuzball fan um this year he showed up he was there all weekend

[01:06:25] and he changed shirts and jackets like nine times during the course of the weekend and they were all

[01:06:30] like shirts from from the late seventies like T.S. shirts really were like Colorado State you know

[01:06:35] 1983 you know all of these great dude you know he would always walk up to me every time Jim check

[01:06:40] out this one no one you know so much and so it was like yeah that's cool Larry

[01:06:45] nice well none of them mr sorry I wanted to sorry time I want to ask uh mr Donald here if he

[01:06:51] happened to have an update on the points or if he had any uh had any word on the points okay um

[01:06:57] basically everything's gonna get swapped back like it was and and if you was 200 points away

[01:07:02] from jumping to rank you're gonna be put back there unfortunately this stuff is so old the coding

[01:07:07] and everything that there's only so many people that can work on it and uh I basically thought

[01:07:12] it was gonna be done last week that's when I was told by the person doing it said that they would

[01:07:17] get to it Friday night and I checked before I came on and has been done yet and I know the person

[01:07:23] is dealing with a spouse that's not in good health and so I could take away some of the time and

[01:07:29] stuff so I mean but it's gonna get done before t.k.o I'm sure but I know uh nobody's gonna change

[01:07:35] ranks it's still they can still sign up and everything be the same and uh I'm looking forward to it

[01:07:41] being done because I don't want to see ten people have the same points and then it's just going to

[01:07:47] shuffle the seating out now the masters won't be like everybody else will and I don't I don't want

[01:07:52] to see that so it's definitely gonna get changed before the end we're just just waiting is every

[01:07:57] event seated I didn't know that don't you guys see everything amateur everything but amateur and down

[01:08:02] okay okay and uh and since we widen since we widened their made their ranges wider uh they might

[01:08:10] start being seated too that way because they're instead of only 500 points for rookies and amateurs

[01:08:16] now they have a thousand to work through so so we might start seeding that I got that's your

[01:08:21] question I'm just thinking I'm just curious so seating expert if you see the expert you have like

[01:08:28] amateurs in there playing high experts in the first round right I mean because that's how the

[01:08:33] seating goes you at the top plays a low is that work out well I mean intuitively it just feels like

[01:08:38] why wouldn't high experts have to run into each other earlier I don't know it's kind of well

[01:08:43] the same reason you wouldn't want any high open players running each other you know

[01:08:49] kind of I just gotta think that I'm not challenging you I haven't thought about it no no I'm

[01:08:53] just saying you know in experts uh you know we were we talked about this a long time ago

[01:09:00] about seating and non-seating well I mean you know the masters would love to see it seated

[01:09:06] because they don't want to run into Tony first round well in expert we have our own

[01:09:10] Tony's in expert division whoever's high at that time and you wouldn't want to run

[01:09:14] them on the first round so that's why we would uh you know see the expert and above and the

[01:09:20] reason they didn't see amateur and below is because we held their points till the end of the season

[01:09:25] so they could play their ranked the whole year but that's because their range was only 500 now

[01:09:28] this is a thousand there's no need in doing that and you know it'll make for being able to

[01:09:35] see them as well so so let me ask a question I did this little exercise you know my personality

[01:09:40] it's taking whatever a couple of years but I even know my personality I'll leave it at that

[01:09:49] when this whole thing we love you Mark we do love yeah I got a snapshot on my phone you want to

[01:09:54] say it it's not good show so so uh so uh so when um he's gonna he's gonna so do something so

[01:10:02] ethnically appropriating I may sue him watch I know this picture is I would not be the way show it show it

[01:10:09] show it let me just say some every time I talk to this cat he won't open his eyes and look at me

[01:10:15] and I and and he said you're talking about my ethnic background I said well if they were like that

[01:10:21] all the time yeah if it was like it all the time yeah but I see him with his eyes open wide

[01:10:26] and uh I called him a Texas state with his eyes open wide and I took a picture and then I said hey

[01:10:30] Mark what's up he goes to closeness I was talking to him again and then I just showed him the picture

[01:10:35] I said it gigs up buddy I know you can open them up this is like this is like a southerner ordering Chinese

[01:10:43] food open eyes there you go that's his eyes open here it doesn't even look like him it doesn't even look

[01:10:49] like him who is that that's he open his eyes that's not me nice photo shop yeah right

[01:10:57] right right yeah it's an AI funny making fun of making fun of Pacific Islanders I think

[01:11:03] it's gonna work well for you professionally whatever you're still doing okay so listen

[01:11:07] so uh I am reserving comment you notice that right I am not saying a word

[01:11:13] I could have said something like Mason and Dixon are both rolling around on their grave but

[01:11:17] yeah not okay um oh yeah all right let me finish my thought Jim for crying out loud thank you

[01:11:25] for defending me listen Donald Wilson I wrote down a list of things and it's very simple I saw

[01:11:30] this whole thing blowing up online and it made me laugh because it's just the whole thing was just

[01:11:34] a cluster right people complaining masters complaining that they were they're close to being master

[01:11:39] the inverse argument most people are complaining because they move up too quick and you got people

[01:11:43] complaining that there were far now from being where their goals had been so you had a whole like

[01:11:48] popery of people pissed off right all kinds of people pissed off all right I love popery you put that

[01:11:53] down mother all right so I took a piece of paper I said okay where are the problems you have an

[01:11:58] emotional attachment to a contrived social construct people think their masters and pros you have

[01:12:03] lack of transparency because people don't know when they're gonna move up and down you have this ambiguity

[01:12:09] about how to get where they want to go and you have the complete like um the calculus of the whole

[01:12:14] thing is like for everyone else is magic right for everyone else it's I know it's an Excel spreadsheet

[01:12:19] with probably some very formulaic in the other day but so I wrote down this thing I said okay what's

[01:12:24] an easy way to do this okay if you get if you didn't read it and guess what a bunch of people private

[01:12:30] message me said that's so easy it's so easy the people that complain we're saying um well

[01:12:35] there's only five or six events a year I'm like well there should be more events where you qualify

[01:12:39] if you have 300 or more people at your event you want all these simple solutions like oh it's

[01:12:43] gonna take me 10 years to become a pro and I could never become a master well you yeah that's right

[01:12:47] I'll take you 10 years to become a pro because you're not good enough and if you never become a

[01:12:51] master you were never supposed to be you never made the sacrifices very simple formula right you win

[01:12:56] five majors open majors and you could be called a master you win like whatever eight expert events

[01:13:03] and you can become a pro and until you do that you're just stuck at your point level 2999

[01:13:08] until you and so if it takes you forever that's how crappy you were you suck that much if you're

[01:13:14] an amateur for 30 years you can never get the 30 points so I just want to and I'm not advocating

[01:13:18] for my solution I'm saying it took me 20 minutes to figure that out a bunch of people agreed

[01:13:23] it's a very clean way to do it give me some I mean give me some reasons why cleaner solutions

[01:13:29] aren't being constructed it's not well I'm not part barking at you by the way I'm just emotional well

[01:13:34] well I'm okay with that I don't care but look here's the thing is it's pretty simple you get eight

[01:13:40] points for each each seed above yours you get eight points every seed but every seed below your

[01:13:49] rank you lose eight point eight points plain as simple you gain eight you lose eight you get if

[01:13:56] you finish three rounds on the bracket then you're going to gain eight sixteen twenty four points

[01:14:02] if you finish three below you lose twenty four points that's how the seeding points work okay so

[01:14:06] let me challenge you let me challenge you why do you have a critical mass of quote-unquote prose

[01:14:11] that quit because they never have a chance to win okay I'll tell you but I'm not finished okay go

[01:14:16] go and then they have what they call bonus points but I like to call them chart placement points

[01:14:22] like if you win a placement first through fifth six they add all the points from all the players say

[01:14:29] singles you add all the points together everybody in singles then you divide it by the amount of

[01:14:33] people then there's an algorithm that is done algorithm you got it that's what I said algorithm

[01:14:39] you got it and uh... and then uh... then they have some kind of format they do to give those

[01:14:45] points the first through fifth six that but they took it for the four players 1912 this more

[01:14:49] Amy's one who wrote that and she told me by the end of the week which is

[01:14:56] this this week Steve was going to give me something that I could put on Facebook to show everybody

[01:15:01] this is how it's all done because transparency is what I like the most about the points is letting

[01:15:07] everybody know what you can gain in lose you know so don't let me ask you a question this was my

[01:15:12] big argument can I take 20 second place finishes and expert singles and be a pro you could that's

[01:15:18] complete trash okay and then and then what they do is uh they they'll call it say why did I go to

[01:15:26] pro I don't think I deserve it well did you dominate expert well never won never won

[01:15:33] you dominated you dominated second so we haven't adopted this yet but I feel like

[01:15:40] I don't think it should be eight or five I think three majors three majors and and if you gain

[01:15:46] the points and you could go up that that's what I'm I'm that's what I would say that's what the

[01:15:51] points committee needs to stay about vote on and then let Mary no that's why I mean that's better

[01:15:57] and let me tell you why I argue with the math purist the math purist who I argue with say it should

[01:16:02] be about the math and but there's a human element that's missing and he'll men element is winning

[01:16:08] winning for me in foosball because it's such a small community winning you learn you build character by

[01:16:14] winning you can if you take enough second and third place finishes you get advanced and then you

[01:16:18] fail at the next level to you can't even compete anymore so why not learn how to win first if you

[01:16:23] never learn how to win you never advance now the one last to go ahead Jim just never I go but no

[01:16:28] no it's no so true and I'll let you get back to you Mark the only issue I have in Donald and

[01:16:33] it's when you use the word we when talking about the points

[01:16:39] we as in a points committee you also mentioned uh a promoter who is

[01:16:45] directly in all of the right that's the problem I have and nothing against Mary nothing

[01:16:49] against you but for a point system to truly be accepted by players to to be truly transparent

[01:16:57] it needs to be independent and that I will not I'm not you're not going to shake me from that

[01:17:02] stance I see it work this way in every other country I've ever been to and that's more than 20

[01:17:07] and watching how they do things in those countries um and it needs to be independent it needs not

[01:17:13] to have any influence anything at all to do with individual promoters uh whoever they are and so

[01:17:21] that's before we can even talk about what makes a pro what points add up to create the different

[01:17:27] ratings before we even go there for me I I can't accept any of it because it's not independent

[01:17:33] okay well just the fact that it was uh I guess given to her from tornado layback and then she's

[01:17:41] built on it she's worked on it she's done a lot of money spent on it and everything I could see not

[01:17:48] given it up same thing with diver with with the with the house of tournaments you know he he designed it

[01:17:53] he built it now he's doing points and um you know he made the comment that he would like US TSO

[01:17:58] to to be over the points and I said well will we take it solely and control it no he said we would

[01:18:04] keep it on our is software you know so nobody that has their own points and has been working on

[01:18:09] it and has been a time on it's not loose totally you know yeah this is what he does though he is

[01:18:15] he is working on he isn't necessarily an individual tournament promoter uh and I do trust that it

[01:18:20] would all be about math with him but yet still I agree um if he's working for the federation

[01:18:26] and directly involved with you and the board and very transparent I could see that but you're

[01:18:30] right about that again independence period no one with a financial stake whoever they might be

[01:18:37] should have any influence at all on the person before until we can get to that point I don't

[01:18:41] I think they're always going to have controversies like this well there's always going to be

[01:18:45] controversy GM you know because no one's happy you can't make everybody happy didn't say they

[01:18:49] need to be happy I said there's controversy so that's the other will be and now and like like

[01:18:54] mark in the in the expert they only had a thousand points range now they have two thousand points

[01:19:02] so now if you go up two thousand points getting second thirds going to take a super long time

[01:19:09] you're going to have to win some first to really move up in the expert now since it's for two

[01:19:13] thousand range and I felt like adding that extra thousand by the time they make it to pro they

[01:19:18] would be ready for pro well I think you're almost there man I think that should get to 1999

[01:19:24] and be stuck there and to the and you look at who's served you know served the foothball

[01:19:28] tournaments are served you got people that are playing in the same ranking they they'll continue to

[01:19:33] trust me like whenever milestone you create it's clear now whenever milestone you create people

[01:19:37] are going to strive for even if it's bullshit so give them one that's difficult like if I knew

[01:19:41] I had a win eight expert events to become a pro I'd be like fighting my I'd be looking for

[01:19:47] partners I'd be working my ass off because I really wanted to be a pro there'd be a goal it's tangible

[01:19:51] I could see it yeah and I knew that and guess what's going to happen in that process I'm going to

[01:19:55] be good enough to compete with the pros because I won as an expert so you're almost there I don't think

[01:20:00] you should get an automatic get I think it's get stuck and have to win to get to the next level yeah

[01:20:06] well I always said three because anybody can win state championships because it's you know

[01:20:12] this not going to be as strong as competition as majors that's why I said three majors

[01:20:17] you know that's it does that count Colorado and Texas as majors as it should yeah if you have over 300

[01:20:22] players that's a major to me my old friend Franco de Pozo who is chatting here it'll set a

[01:20:28] California player I think not living in Kansas but he when he turned pro and when I turned pro

[01:20:34] Mark when you if you had a beverage or pro you actually you did and I know but it was a big deal

[01:20:40] so here's the thing yeah and you know me I'm at this stage of the game I don't really have a

[01:20:46] horse in the race at all right but I'm a reporter and I'm an observer of the sport there are too

[01:20:51] many pro masters there are too many pros if I look closely there's probably too many experts

[01:20:58] yeah you know you know and so and what does that tell you that symptomatic of something

[01:21:04] what is it symptomatic up oh I think you're right Jim yeah well you're right

[01:21:12] and and that's a that's an unbiased I'm looking at this I I don't care I do care I care about

[01:21:17] the sport but there are there's too many masters there are too many pros and probably if I look

[01:21:21] closely there are a lot of low end experts who probably should be amateurs and that's just based on

[01:21:26] the eyeball test that's based on root results as well um but those are symptomatic of something

[01:21:32] and that's what we need to decipher and I'm gonna ask you a question Jim it's me Lewis

[01:21:37] Car ride and Billy Paffess it's Thursday night we're in a bar and we're having this conversation about

[01:21:42] what it means to be a master outside of the fact that this should be some something for it like you

[01:21:48] you'll be play pay less or whatever you get whatever the what you should get for it what does it

[01:21:52] mean to be a master we started doing the math on if you won five open majors and that does that make

[01:22:00] you a master and you look at the company who that is look at who that is like we don't like like

[01:22:05] like we that we don't even know if Adrian Zamora barely makes it like you get Murray you get

[01:22:10] LaFranco easily you get you get Billy right get Tony you get Rob Mars but you get people who

[01:22:15] you think of as masters right and then when you start getting to like you get Tommy Atkinson

[01:22:20] and then it gets really thin dude like it is like if this if the criteria was to win five majors

[01:22:27] to be a master I could tell you right now Terry rule be fighting his ass off to get another major

[01:22:32] because he wants to be a master we don't even know if he makes it not sure if he makes it or not

[01:22:36] right so these guys that we assume our masters get delineated I mean you really I mean you can go

[01:22:41] back like Doug Furrier's a master right these guys are masters Dan Kaisers a master but then all

[01:22:46] these other garbage masters and you remember this Jim in the 90s we had a bunch of shitty masters

[01:22:51] we had dozens and dozens of shitty masters I have so many shitty master friends even right now

[01:22:56] and Brian King was one of the shittiest masters on the planet who are you Adrian Donus you gotta be

[01:23:01] kidding these guys are not masters dude so I want to get back this to you I just want to validate

[01:23:05] your point that the term gets deluded and people believe it and there's not a really a connection

[01:23:12] to the reality of mastery of a sport people beating people at the highest level on champion

[01:23:16] chippoint with the most stress and anxiety with the most on the line these guys do not qualify to be

[01:23:22] masters now and it's fine with it it's fine then being pros and yeah I'm a pro pro player yes you are

[01:23:30] you are absolutely a pro player are you a master no you're not now you've talked about it before

[01:23:34] I think what might have been Adams term might have been yours mark the gatekeepers those that

[01:23:38] mid-level there maybe Terry Ruiz there maybe he's moving on that because he has that world

[01:23:42] championship but but there is this this grounded you you gotta get through these guys you gotta

[01:23:47] get through these guys before you get to these guys right and if you can't get through these

[01:23:51] guys are you a master if you can't get through that that six through 15 or whatever of of guys

[01:23:58] beat them in the finals like beat like I beat Tony to get to fourth and does that make me a master

[01:24:03] that makes us a joke it makes me a joke that I beat Tony if I would beat him in the finals I'm still not

[01:24:09] a master I can do it five times yeah you see the difference anyway go ahead Jim so anyway no but

[01:24:14] again it's it's just symptomatic there needs to be a we need to take another look at it

[01:24:20] and I know again Donald you're you know you guys are all doing the best you can with it and I understand

[01:24:24] the circumstances I understand it was handed down from tornado they started this you know so

[01:24:30] and it just is perpetuated on and there are just better ways of doing it but again for me

[01:24:34] it needs to be done independently and at this stage I don't know if that's even possible

[01:24:38] you know based on on current environment so well I do agree I do agree on the masters I mean if you

[01:24:45] but you know Tracy you didn't mention Tracy Mcmillan and Dave Gomez and all the other there

[01:24:50] there's I would say there's probably 10 I'm talking about current players I would say 10 10 maybe

[01:24:57] 15 you know Blake Robertson you didn't mention him either I mean there's there's some that's

[01:25:02] going to be in the top but I do agree there's some that shouldn't be there and instead of bumping

[01:25:08] them back down to pro I think there should be like another rating scatigory another rating

[01:25:15] super master a super master our grand master or something like that they would still be they

[01:25:21] would still be considered masters you would not be a tournament just for grandmasters I'm just saying

[01:25:25] when you get to that high level grandmaster just doesn't have a really good ring to it if I'm

[01:25:30] being honest yeah they don't me either but I'm just saying even spacer as well yeah and even if

[01:25:36] you say elite master our elite you know they already had the elite net didn't work that was kind

[01:25:41] of a go between between pro and master and that that feels like out because you know it is what it

[01:25:47] is but I mean I do agree there's some that shouldn't be I'm gonna make them associate masters and

[01:25:53] they'll hate that right how do you like to be an associate master master master

[01:26:00] apprentice assistant to the regional assistant to the regional master master master

[01:26:05] master only so so let me okay so so let me ask Kenneth Dale right Kenneth Dale just turn master and

[01:26:11] I feel like this is this would be a good name to throw out for the topic of discussion Kenneth won

[01:26:17] pro singles a dozen times right a bunch of times just regionally all he you know all he's done

[01:26:24] is play foosball he's dedicated himself to foosball but never be Brandon and open singles final

[01:26:31] or any any other brand inner Tony or Tony never never won an open singles beating one of those guys

[01:26:38] in a final so master never never played stop 10 in a major and then he singles oh Jim speak for

[01:26:45] me Jim is Kenneth Dale a master no obviously not he is not a master I would give him I'd tell you

[01:26:53] to pro it's a pro player I'd say at least a mid-level pro player with a unique game and it's

[01:26:58] had some success and I know he lives in breeze foosball and he plays probably more than anybody else

[01:27:02] on the pro tour but is he a master no okay so I've heard I've heard Michael stall I've heard

[01:27:09] Michael stall say that if you tell him Kenneth Dale's not a master he'll fight you that's what

[01:27:14] he said tell me Kenneth Dale's not a master but and and and and and I really like Kenneth Dale

[01:27:19] well I'm not working about night he can't have Dale

[01:27:25] but it's like it's like Ken and look Ken I think I think Ken is Ken's a great player nice guy

[01:27:32] I've played with Ken I love Kenny Kenny's a good dude but you know again like you're saying by

[01:27:39] your standard and you've Jim said it he's he's not a master the guy's not a master well we're

[01:27:44] talking about standards right if you're talking about the IFP construct he's what he's whatever

[01:27:51] they want he's Superman he's God he's a Greek God he's Thor he's like the God of Thunder he's

[01:27:55] whatever you want to call we're talking about our apps

[01:28:01] apps dominoes yeah big big big well he has he has made a prediction he has made a prediction that he

[01:28:08] will win open singles in 2027 it worlds that world 27 under on you 27 specifically you know what

[01:28:18] that makes me understand I'm doing three about two more years to work himself up to winning

[01:28:23] I'm gonna go I'm gonna make criteria that makes you a flash in the pan like a master has success

[01:28:29] over a duration at the top level winning I am a Kenneth Dale fan I'm a fan all right I love

[01:28:34] what I just found to watch play yeah is his game as it's currently constructed with the tick-tack

[01:28:41] series etc going to win major championships and singles and it is not but I love his energy I love

[01:28:47] his drive you gotta have goals I hope he does I really hope you do if I was a betting man I'm saying

[01:28:52] you probably isn't Michael do Michael stalls a sweetheart he's not fighting anybody and also I'll

[01:28:58] call Michael now and say hey brother we all have our I will have our different standards if he's

[01:29:03] your master he's your master yeah everybody everybody's got he's in St. Louis right now yes

[01:29:13] Fusa pollution by the way and shout out to Michael for Fusa pollution and the kids that he's

[01:29:17] been working with all weekend fantastic did a great job out there I talked to him been having

[01:29:23] a good time made a lot of good contacts yeah but I do agree with that concept of too many masters

[01:29:29] but you know what you're gonna do with him you told me the pros and you got some pros it

[01:29:34] probably should be experts yeah that's fine yeah and then you got some experts you dump some

[01:29:39] X pros down in the expert night then you need to put the experts down to amateur right that's

[01:29:44] right it's all it's uh you gotta put them somewhere we're going down I'm supposed to we're

[01:29:49] agreeing with you go ahead I think you draw time Tom should probably be close to master because he

[01:29:55] won with time of your oh come on a couple weeks ago so he's got one open under his belt you just

[01:30:01] need three more you know what I did you know what I did in that match that last especially the last

[01:30:05] match I just did this with my with my points finger that's that's what I did we're consistent did

[01:30:11] you get it right every time oh yeah you know well that I even brought some some extra you know

[01:30:15] silicon loop for that because you know Tom solid Tom solid as well he's well practiced but oh yeah

[01:30:21] what I was what I was gonna say was you draw a line right across the middle and you say pros up

[01:30:27] here everyone else down here and that's it like I said there's just too many divisions there's

[01:30:33] two what again mr. Donald then and I asked you and you gave me an answer you know what's the

[01:30:38] difference between a rookie and an amateur and you said a thousand points and that's that's a

[01:30:43] that's a that's an answer but I'm saying on the table legitimately what's the difference

[01:30:48] skills well well be honest with you like I said last time beginner is not a rank

[01:30:55] I'm not talking about beginners I know the beginner is a starting place yes and once you're

[01:31:01] a rookie you should be able to maybe pass of all once or twice maybe maybe shoot but miss execute

[01:31:07] you're trying you'll hit one out of five you're doing pretty good once you start executing better

[01:31:14] passing better you move up to amateur but it's just basically more consistent and more

[01:31:20] uh more game plan and stuff like that as you go up and ranks there's not a whole lot between

[01:31:26] rookie and amateur but um now's a thousand points so you still start seeing some big differences

[01:31:32] between amateur and rookie as they develop their games yeah two two two two thoughts on that um one

[01:31:40] you say beginner is not a rating yet it was and there were players who would play five or six

[01:31:45] or seven times in beginner oh yeah um and so so that's a the other one is what is

[01:31:51] different between a rookie and an amateur an amateur is a rookie who is one a rookie event

[01:31:57] there you go that's it yeah that's fair yeah I still say beginners just a starting place because

[01:32:04] you don't want to rank the beginner it's a starting place it should be and you should be allowed

[01:32:07] to play beginner one time yeah one well I think I think one year one season should be it should be

[01:32:15] in the one season on the pro tour give give them a chance to to play worlds as a beginner and then

[01:32:21] you know that's it anyone out there taking notes on these symptoms of a faulty rating system um

[01:32:29] the ones we already pointed out that there's too many masters too many pros too many experts etc the

[01:32:33] other one is and I hate to use Kenneth Dale as an example because I like the guy you surgery

[01:32:38] surgery are going to surgery but what in the world has Kenneth Dale done to earn master status

[01:32:46] that's a lot of pros he's one pro single one pros when they're when they're yeah when there's

[01:32:51] 12 players in pro in you know in in in mobile um not mobile uh what is it what is it they would

[01:33:00] at all without ever taking a top 10 finish in an open event of any of these he's he's got some

[01:33:06] third places and open singles not it not ever at a major not ever at a tournament of more than 200

[01:33:12] players or 250 players that would be considered a major well he didn't win he didn't win pro singles

[01:33:17] in Vegas he didn't win pro singles at worlds um I mean originally he he dominated pro singles unless

[01:33:24] Jacob was there unless Jacob alcoze was there but you know let's Jacob alcoze was there

[01:33:29] well hey here he's just being honest I'm just being honest he's making a construct like

[01:33:34] he's making him watch his crypto night is Jacob alcoze his crypto night is Jacob alcoze

[01:33:39] okay it's a lot of people scripted a lot of people scripted a lot of people scripted a lot of people

[01:33:43] to reiterate this because people will catch this wherever they want they're going to hear they're

[01:33:46] gonna filter it they're gonna hear whatever they want I don't think Kenneth Dale's awesome

[01:33:50] I love him and I think Michael Stahl is awesome yeah and if you buy into the construct of what a

[01:33:56] master is under the current paradigm correct but if you want to look at it from a his a sense of

[01:34:02] history and a sense of pride in what it means and what what the term master should mean there's

[01:34:09] gotta be a higher standard man yeah and I will argue is there anybody who has

[01:34:14] the exposure to or the experience of more than I do to see how things have gone for 30 years

[01:34:23] and to be able to put it into context and say this is what I think of what a master looks like

[01:34:28] all right yeah I don't think so yeah I don't think so because you you look at

[01:34:32] the foosball through different lens not as a competitor anymore as an archivist in a

[01:34:37] historian so your filters completely different and I'm trying to both smoke up your ass but you have

[01:34:42] a different perspective of foosball that completely makes sense it completely makes sense to me man

[01:34:46] and yeah I don't go I'm gonna challenge everybody's gonna look I don't think Kevin Romero's a master

[01:34:51] I don't think Brandon Munoz is a master I don't know the whole the whole the whole the whole the whole the

[01:34:55] Brandon Brandon Brandon listen Brandon's double that world's twice he's double that world's twice you

[01:35:00] know open he's yes open open I know this open doubles open next and he's one or he's won open doubles in Vegas

[01:35:08] now I think two times okay fine he's one of the text is one of Colorado state that's great

[01:35:14] to see how much I watch foosball even though I probably commented yeah he's got the he's got the

[01:35:18] credentials can Kevin Romero Kevin Romero was not uh Kevin Romero a two time world champion in open

[01:35:24] doubles yeah I think I think I think we're open doubles we're gonna give them three majors for each

[01:35:30] open doubles but we're each open world championship mark technically as long if he means it's right

[01:35:36] and not even that he when he was a pro care he's a pro not know he's saying he dominated singles and

[01:35:43] doubles as a pro and was finishing top three in singles and doubles in the open events yeah so he's

[01:35:51] if he he's won the events I'll give you that but I'm gonna tell you one last story that's gonna

[01:35:54] Bruce shed light on all this he'll illuminate all this they created the pro doubles event in 2004 2005

[01:35:59] I played in the work for one of the first pro doubles events at the Hall of Fame beat Rob Athe in the

[01:36:04] finals and I wiped my ass with the trophy and left it on the stage because it wasn't open I took

[01:36:09] second at the world and this is when pro doubles was big everybody there's all these like masters

[01:36:14] playing in public that was your trophy yeah I left it up there I took second at the very next I took

[01:36:20] second at the world I left my trophy on the stage I've never had any respect for the pro division back

[01:36:24] when he was big I went I was winning it I had no respect for that division because it's not open

[01:36:29] so my filter is completely different I think the pro division is just like for people that can't

[01:36:34] play open to that it can't win open and that's what that's literally what it is right it's a

[01:36:38] division of people that can't win at the open level so what does the common denominator of all

[01:36:42] of all pro masters what is one of them there are few but what one of the most important ones to me

[01:36:47] is consistency all right that what do you look at guys you look at Tommy Atkissin you look at

[01:36:52] you look at Adrian Samori look at Todd LaFreydo you look at the big guys they're always there always

[01:36:56] there always there every time I don't want to diminish Kevin Romero but consistency is an issue with

[01:37:02] yes he has the two world championships that might usurp everything all right that trumps everything

[01:37:06] he's a pro master fine I I'm not going to disagree with him being a pro master but the consistency

[01:37:10] isn't there for me with him and I am a proponent in life a proponent in sports of consistency because

[01:37:18] I know how difficult it is to achieve it um and for me that is almost the primary thing that I judge

[01:37:26] a pro master on is their consistency yes there can be these blips and they can win a world championship

[01:37:30] or win some major championships but if you are consistent you're always there you're always

[01:37:33] knocking at the door half the time you are getting wins um for me that is just so important and for

[01:37:39] me Kevin Romero doesn't have it and I could name a few other names as well very few pro masters

[01:37:44] though are inconsistent yeah that's true true always a threat and you just get amazing when

[01:37:51] you think about it these guys who are able to do it you know not get upset there's the occasional

[01:37:55] upset but they always tend to come back right because they can in this particular format but it's

[01:38:00] all it's kind of amazing how these guys are there tournament and tournament out always competing for

[01:38:05] championships so this brings up another topic that we were discussing last week about tko it's going

[01:38:12] to be the first time in a while that championship formats are going to be used for the open at also

[01:38:17] the pro events so what championship means is that if you lose at all in that that opening round you

[01:38:24] end up in the losers bracket and the best you can do is third place so this controversy already

[01:38:29] there are masters very openly and quietly argumentative that like why if they the money's not big enough

[01:38:36] for them to play for third so I know they're going to be masters if they lose in their early round

[01:38:41] they're just they're just gonna drink and not show up because we're like why are we doing this

[01:38:44] so there's a fail there's a weakness if the money if it was the thunder dome playing for third

[01:38:49] major playing for five grand one person it's not the thunder dome you're playing for like 600 bucks

[01:38:54] or 800 bucks it's very difficult so I don't know I've told masters have told me they lose an early

[01:38:58] round they're checking out hmm well you've been hanging out you've been hanging out with Bill is

[01:39:03] so he's the big opponent against it he's not the only one he's not the only one who's the biggest

[01:39:09] I said the biggest the loudest on the other hand I've heard some people who like it I like

[01:39:15] I like yeah well I mean I like the fact I like the fact it isn't two sets in the finals I do

[01:39:23] like that okay I don't I'd never loved the the two set open doubles open singles open mixed doubles

[01:39:29] women's etc I've never loved that okay in Germany if you come from the loser side it is double

[01:39:35] elimination on the p for pector used to be if you got to the finals you just had to win an extra

[01:39:40] game it's still just one one match what I love that part of it but like Mark says though you lose

[01:39:46] early it's human nature I can no longer win this tournament am I really gonna compete and compete

[01:39:51] at the highest level yeah I want to but can I if I'm only going for third place well that make

[01:39:59] I mean I can see that there probably will be some people that don't want to stick stick around

[01:40:04] but um I don't know either I think Ryan's one of the biggest I just think it plays is going

[01:40:09] to be happy because they're done they're done they don't have to wait two days yeah to wait for

[01:40:15] somebody to come out of the losers bracket to play him well why hard yeah but we would get that in

[01:40:20] the Swiss system as well our one day or whatever you know why wouldn't we go Swiss system when it's

[01:40:25] a proven hundred percent proven to be player popular to be um certainly for promoters or for

[01:40:33] events you know to have that time in between to have that time later to have a true competition

[01:40:38] that can be measured why would we not just go to the Swiss system what's the what's the problem

[01:40:44] with promoters using the British maybe that's your opinion maybe that's next year what's the

[01:40:48] problem I would I would think I would think it's not enough tables um because if well you don't have

[01:40:56] as many you can't have that many events either I mean the Swiss system over there they don't they

[01:41:01] only have what four five events they have men when players play just as much they get

[01:41:07] to play as much as they want to right so I'm just I'm just saying there's less divisions so they can

[01:41:14] you know go longer on tables however many rounds are going to you know do the qualifying until they

[01:41:20] get to the knockout I mean uh let me ask this question from a business perspective there's a reason

[01:41:26] why it's because the model that has evolved through the past couple decades is is a volume based

[01:41:33] model right they sell part of the revenue return is not just selling tables not just selling

[01:41:37] chaach keys it's all the other registration admin fees etc and hotel rooms right you book your hotel

[01:41:44] room out and there's all these different revenue streams that exist based on the number of players

[01:41:49] so the bigger the more the more players that show up to your tournament the more profitable you are if

[01:41:55] the whole model is based on that then you need all these different events and if you have all these

[01:41:59] events you can't have a Swiss system because you need three times or four times the number of tables

[01:42:05] so you can't make any money and I'm not being disparaging I'm not being critical I think that people

[01:42:10] have their business have the right to run their business and that's how their business has been run

[01:42:13] but that's why my tournaments were so different not to make this about me become a make it about me

[01:42:18] when you have a tournament with 16 tables you charge 450 bucks per person you can make five grand

[01:42:23] from that be profitable five grand you don't need 400 people at your tournament to do it you need

[01:42:28] 32 people at your tournament to do it 64 people for for the 64 of it 64 so it's just a different model

[01:42:37] it's a different way of doing it and I'm not being critical like I said but I mean get back to your

[01:42:41] gym you can't have a Swiss system because you need as many people as you can to come to your tournament

[01:42:46] and you know you can't provide the tables with them you can't see the math on that first of all

[01:42:51] and I can sit down and figure that out but but then I'd have to not pay attention to what's going on here

[01:42:56] because I've I've competed I've covered I've competed dozens of Swiss system events world

[01:43:02] championship events in Germany and in France and in Belgium and in Austria and in Poland and in

[01:43:08] England and around the world in in Taiwan and in China and it's some of those events there were

[01:43:13] 400 players and there were 60 tables well hasn't we were done they've been doing that the past

[01:43:21] couple years within the open event in the open event yeah we were out of there a lot of odd Swiss

[01:43:26] we were out of there at nine o'clock on Sunday night you know the tournament was over winding down we

[01:43:31] could head to the bar support the venue after after the play is done so I want to see the math

[01:43:37] on on that when you say you need more tables that's not my experience well GM those 400 people

[01:43:44] wasn't playing in five or six different events either they're just playing in that one event

[01:43:49] they were playing in actually more than that because they're simultaneous as you know Donald

[01:43:52] there's right you can't play them both right there's junior there's women's there's there's

[01:43:56] the end there's the seniors that's what I'm that's what I'm saying we don't have tournaments here

[01:44:02] that just have those events they have all the others which is still get to play a lot and you can

[01:44:07] still mix in you can still mix in uh you know once you get past those first few rounds of elimination

[01:44:13] it opens up tables you can still fit in some smaller single elimination or whatever um you know

[01:44:19] specialty events and as has been done again that's my experience in Europe is they do

[01:44:25] players are happy players are not worn out at the end of the weekend players are sitting in

[01:44:28] the stance cheering because they are not brain dead from having to stay up until 3 a.m. in the

[01:44:34] morning and get back up at 10 a.m. in the morning to compete um it's tried it's true it works

[01:44:40] it's proven why aren't more people doing it well dead silence where's the where's the

[01:44:50] cricket's there Donnie at the you got that sound effect there you go it's an open-ended open-ended

[01:44:55] question um again it's you know I would love to hear why um American promoters are rebelling

[01:45:02] against something that actually works and but I do also admire the fact that the IFP is trying

[01:45:07] something different I do love the elimination of the two sets and maybe this is the first step

[01:45:12] towards eventually uh something along those lines for IFP as well and I and I again I'm not going

[01:45:17] to disparage anything that that Mary and IFP has done they have been so consistent with running

[01:45:21] tournaments for the last 20 years um and of course yourself as well we're we're all doing what we can

[01:45:27] maybe mean not so much anymore um but you know um we're all trying to push the sport forward in

[01:45:32] whatever way we can it just seems like there are some ways to do it um my green of uh Florida I

[01:45:38] think we know who my green is my green yeah he's got a message for Mark uh Thunderdome is for

[01:45:44] losers sweet hey you know I don't think he's got a lot of time there dude I got hacked his

[01:45:52] face that hacked and he's selling crypto some hacker selling crypto and hey hey Mark yeah I got

[01:46:01] uh I think Dave current his Facebook got hacked too because I saw it was doing that crypt

[01:46:05] oh whatever stuff uh a couple days ago so uh won't you leave everybody's Facebook accounts

[01:46:11] alone Mark but anyway I am not gonna make a living in Donald but but Jim hacker Donald look I can't

[01:46:18] see him I know I know I know I got it right here you can't see but no no seriously Jim uh I mean

[01:46:26] I agree I agree with uh you get to play more I've been over there overseas twice and I had fun in

[01:46:32] the knockout rounds we played like 10 about 10 races to seven and then they take the top either 32

[01:46:41] or 64 whatever and you play single elimination I get that but again with all these different events

[01:46:47] and and you know the reason we have these different events is because players like to come play

[01:46:53] and the lower ranks if we didn't have those lower ranks they wouldn't there wouldn't be enough

[01:46:58] money for the open you know now I know over there they they pay 30 bucks to play per event or maybe

[01:47:04] 15 and I don't I don't you know if they just get medals or not in some of those events I don't

[01:47:08] I've never been to one other than those two big big ones you know so I don't know what they do for

[01:47:13] their all the different events but again over there I don't know what they I don't know what they

[01:47:18] have over in Europe as far as sport wise I mean I know over here in USA they have baseball,

[01:47:24] basketball, football you know track they have all these different things taking everybody's attention

[01:47:31] and I'm talking about the young kids I'm talking about the young kids growing up and so this might

[01:47:36] even be a different topic that I just other things are catching their attention than football

[01:47:40] and that's why we have so many old players and and when we have young players use a second

[01:47:45] generation or maybe even third but if we don't you know if we didn't have all the distractions maybe

[01:47:51] more people play football and we start getting more people I love you dude I love you but if you're

[01:47:55] saying there's not enough going on in Europe and they're relying on food I don't know what do

[01:48:00] they what do they do over there it's soccer base which is an advantage soccer is huge

[01:48:04] drink a lot of other sports as well there's there's there's team handball there's there's other

[01:48:09] sports for sure I mean I've never been outside of foosball things so I don't know I mean that's why

[01:48:14] in Europe let me give you a little bit of this this would be a European and international world

[01:48:18] series world championship series event your entry fees probably would end up being somewhere around

[01:48:23] $165 okay you would you would win you know first place maybe you walk out of there with a thousand

[01:48:30] euro two thousand euro but they pay pretty deeply but it isn't about the money there it is about

[01:48:36] the championship see yeah the world cup they don't get any money the world cup nothing but yet

[01:48:40] you've never seen better inner better competition than you do at the world cup they're not playing

[01:48:44] for money they're playing title they're playing for their partners they're playing for their

[01:48:48] for medals and it's a different mentality and here this is the other thing

[01:48:53] and I love making this point because it is such an obvious one is that when you treat something as a

[01:48:59] sport as every single player does in Europe as the Canadians do and as a handful of Americans do

[01:49:06] I think Randy earlier talked about it how when he goes and it's about a sport it's not about

[01:49:10] going and party in all weekend it's about going doing what I can in preparation to both physically

[01:49:15] mentally to go and compete and I'm gonna address in my in my sporting where I am treating this of

[01:49:20] course in Europe it's mandated they have to go they have to they have to look like sportsman

[01:49:24] it's it's approaching it as a sport not a party not a convention not a get together not a

[01:49:30] chance to see old friends although it's all of the above primarily it's a sport and that's what

[01:49:35] matters at these big tournaments in Europe it isn't about this whole money-based thing

[01:49:40] about we always advertise at the very top of our flyers it says $50,000 tournament

[01:49:45] $100,000 tournament you look at European flyers there's no money on there there's no money

[01:49:50] on there here this is the event here it is they're not advertising it for the money

[01:49:53] it's about the competition and and maybe what came first you know the the chicken or the egg

[01:50:01] on this did we create that environment um and which then enabled these players to come to events

[01:50:07] simply to party and play a little foosball with their friends and compete as much as they could

[01:50:12] considering they're working on three hours sleep or did the players kind of want to do that so

[01:50:17] the promoters catered to that and created the environment that's that's sort of the question

[01:50:21] in Europe the answer is obvious they they created a sport they approached it from from a sport

[01:50:26] thank you for Edelunas and in there in Europe and in Canada of all places um it's a sport before

[01:50:33] it's a party I want to I want to simultaneously defend and evaluate you but I'm gonna I mean

[01:50:41] we've been doing this for decades man like we talked about people having a business and owning

[01:50:45] that business and doing their best to preserve that business and the best they know how because

[01:50:50] I believe that anyone I'm not going to say names anyone who's trying to give it their best right now

[01:50:55] is probably doing the best they know how but it's self perpetuating if 40% or more 60% of

[01:51:02] your revenue to preserve your business comes from a 40 plus year old Gen X that is frankly outside

[01:51:10] getting high and drinking but that's who's paying your entry fees that's coming to you you're going

[01:51:15] to cater to that market to continue to come to your tournament and you can get stuck in a horrible

[01:51:21] kind of cycle and you could do your best you could um support youth programs or whatever but if

[01:51:26] you don't have if that's what you're stuck doing because lack of ideas or commitment or resolve

[01:51:32] or energy whenever it is innovation you get stuck there uh we could probably safely agree that

[01:51:38] that's why we have an aging population with the minority of youth players that are the ideas

[01:51:44] haven't been there and neither has the entrepreneurial kind of innovation to do it so I don't disparage

[01:51:51] once again I'll disparage you you have a business you're doing what you can these are people coming

[01:51:54] to your tournament becoming your tournaments off and on for 30 years they're paying your entry fees

[01:51:58] they're having a good time they're not probably not winning much money you can't win right you can't

[01:52:02] pay everybody so you know how much people paying money to hang out party see their friends are

[01:52:06] aren't winning anything that's who you're catering to right it's not unfair I'm in that group

[01:52:12] shit you know my terms have been due they haven't played the draw having one shit

[01:52:18] and again that happens in Europe but how do they react to it when that happens to them in

[01:52:22] Europe how do they react to it right they look at it oh I lost a bunch of money coming here no they

[01:52:27] say I should have played better it's a practice I got a practice exactly if you don't if you don't

[01:52:33] evolve as a sport or anything you die and we are again never do we and I miss him all the time

[01:52:44] I've got his plaque from the the Bardhoe hanging on the wall over there and that's John O'Brien

[01:52:49] and I you know I talked at some point I know we have only a few minutes left but I talked

[01:52:52] at one point about about people have come along and I've had great ideas and have done them for a

[01:52:58] short period of time they run into an obstacle or a challenge and we never see them like that was

[01:53:03] in John O'Brien John O'Brien was the guy that was going to get it done if he if he saw it if you

[01:53:07] imagined it he was gonna work hard and he was gonna make sure it happened and when when he passed

[01:53:13] I got to tell you for me I took it hard that was a big that was a big loss for the sport not only

[01:53:20] that I love the man it was a great great individually was but but when he he inspired all of us

[01:53:26] right this was a guy doing what he was doing not only with the kids but with the federation with

[01:53:30] you Donald and internationally with Farid he was doing he said this is what needs to be done

[01:53:36] I'm gonna do it and he did it right and then he was gone just like that and for me as somebody who

[01:53:43] has spent decades trying to push the sport forward in whatever way I can to have this individual

[01:53:51] who I work so closely with and communicated so much with and brainstormed with to have him suddenly

[01:53:56] gone and that big gigantic vacuum that opened up after that right because what could have been

[01:54:04] you know they always say like like a government running a country they keep them down they keep

[01:54:09] them down the people don't know any better they they just will continue to to to live that way and

[01:54:15] deal with it in but if you give him hope if you give him hope and then you take it away

[01:54:22] that's when things really go bad that's when you have revolution that's when you have

[01:54:26] coups yep you give him hope and you take it away and for me individually and I think for the entire

[01:54:32] Fuzball public the hope that John O'Brien gave us and then to have it taken away was a tough one

[01:54:39] I know for me we we can overcome that um it does it does bring to mind uh we recently counted down

[01:54:48] the the top 10 most downloaded episodes of Fuzball Radio and Fuztalk Live the number two most

[01:54:54] downloaded episode was called the next generation and John O'Brien was a big part of that

[01:55:00] and what was number one number one was Tony Bacon the no Tony Bacon came in fifth place

[01:55:06] Tony Bacon was fifth place number one was the very first episode called origins which was uh

[01:55:13] with with Tony Sprateman so yeah but uh 1500 downloads plus and that was well

[01:55:21] god it was like 400 downloads more than the next one but you know what I'm

[01:55:26] easy yeah yeah it was uh kind of kind of astounding but John O'Brien in that second that's

[01:55:32] that next generation episode that second episode yeah he was he was on the road with his wife

[01:55:37] and pulled off to the side of the road to talk to us uh through his cell phone on the on the episode

[01:55:42] and you know the the audio wasn't great but man you could hear the passion in his voice

[01:55:49] now and they're still hope like you say of course of course there is of course there there is um

[01:55:55] but again if we don't evolve we die yeah we need to evolve we need to to learn from what others are

[01:56:00] doing um Donald could do it dude come on buddy um make it happen we need that federation we need

[01:56:08] it strong and I know you're capable of doing it um in conjunction with the rest of the

[01:56:13] of the board but that's what that's a big part of it um from motors thinking outside the box

[01:56:18] on an individual basis hopefully with direction from the federation and support from the federation as

[01:56:22] well um there there still there is still is certainly certainly hope for our sport it's a great game

[01:56:28] it's a great sport I mean I love sitting up there on the sidelines commentating and getting inside

[01:56:33] these players heads and and knowing that I'm helping players around the world to understand and

[01:56:38] to appreciate and to grow as players themselves but but it's going to take a lot of effort uh we need

[01:56:43] leadership we need it badly uh but it can be done all right i'll step down off my

[01:56:52] i can cure um so so Donald next weekend we're going to be hanging out in Kentucky and uh we're

[01:57:01] going to be there with uh with a lot of other folks looking forward to uh setting up the booth

[01:57:06] and having some some chats and and hopefully you and I and uh Randy and some of the folks who are

[01:57:11] there at Kentucky can can take some time out to chat live on the air and just get a progress report

[01:57:18] see what's happening um what uh what are you looking for to most Donald um well last year

[01:57:26] I believe we had we say we she had i if he had 300 and one players last year at the TKO

[01:57:34] and from what i'm heard hearing it's going to be bigger than that this year

[01:57:38] hmm nice nice more room sales uh then last year and uh so we're looking for more

[01:57:46] is it's awesome it's almost like it's almost like Mary's texting you i don't know it's amazing though

[01:57:51] no actually actually actually you see that name across the top it says mark it says mark tora as

[01:58:01] i can i can see your face in your mouth and your and and if you reach if you read your text i sent you

[01:58:07] it says come on speak up you got something you want to say say it no i do i know you know speak

[01:58:14] up to see their touch i can read i can read your face no speak up i don't even know what you're talking about

[01:58:20] yeah and one last thing too Tom um tom keep doing what you're doing buddy um both um

[01:58:25] and of course we'll who knows we we could pop back on here more regularly in the future okay

[01:58:30] yeah but going to events doing it live from events that's huge uh continue to to bring the people

[01:58:36] the different voices and foods while uh you are greatly appreciated and thanks again

[01:58:41] thank you and Tom you are consistent oh Randy i just like you dude i like the thing

[01:58:46] i say something thing the look just like the man i like it dude it's i'm a fan something else i think

[01:58:52] we talked about it last week uh after the after each finals they have um i think it would be good

[01:59:00] Jim uh i mean Tom if you're going to be around yes the booth and you could you can interview the

[01:59:05] the winners of each division as it goes oh yeah i'll interview him yeah Randy you do it dude

[01:59:11] what is there i'll do it i'll do it i'll do it uh i know it uh at Mississippi state two years ago

[01:59:19] well yeah year before last uh we wanted to make something special for all the winners so

[01:59:24] i went and bought a lot of wine uh champagne glasses from the dollar tree and bought some apple cider

[01:59:30] and we gave it to all the winners of each division there and let them

[01:59:34] let them uh some hard cider or some like christmas cider it was it was it was sparkling citer it's so to

[01:59:41] you know yeah the 12th 12th 12th 12th and under division the winners oh they got smashed after they

[01:59:48] won i think when i gave it to the girls i think so i'm like what i say this is apple cider it's not

[01:59:54] yeah it's not alcohol well i remember that tournament because

[01:59:58] mack was saying you know fuzball it's like uh it's become kind of stale no cheering no nothing

[02:00:06] yeah so well and Shannon specifically came up to me and he was like bro i need you cheering

[02:00:11] and getting rowdy i was like sure man i was screaming that whole weekend i was the only one i'm in

[02:00:16] the bleachers fun dude yeah i love this going i was going to happen organically though

[02:00:22] it should yeah it should create an environment where that happened but the problem with him

[02:00:27] look i've done it before and i get that look from tonish

[02:00:30] where does that mean these people are like they get all right they get on my homeboy i won't

[02:00:36] i won't like to win that's my homeboy no it has to be it has to be a situation where the

[02:00:40] the crowd is not worn out from from those long hours of five days of fuzball it has to be

[02:00:46] a show right he has to be a show it has to be organically one quick thing about the cider i don't

[02:00:52] know we got to go but you know world championships in Dallas right when whoever would win Fred

[02:00:57] Fred and Todd would win every year and whoever would win steamurrie would come out with that bottle

[02:01:01] of champagne right and pop that top off and just pour it over their heads and then 2003 comes around

[02:01:07] and Tony spredeman Tony spredeman wins open singles and he's 18 right he's 18 and Murray's got that

[02:01:14] bottle he's like what what do i do with it what are i doing it dude don't spray it on my cameras but

[02:01:21] you can dump it just to let him drink it yeah that those will park right from like 94 when Tommy

[02:01:27] Atkinson was just like covered in drinking champagne out of that giant bottle with steamurrie

[02:01:32] handed into him that was like contributing to the the link with the above minor anyway the

[02:01:38] difference there was that Tony's blood alcohol level was zero that was right that's right

[02:01:43] yeah well looks thinking of Tony and i know we're gonna jump off here did any of you guys watch

[02:01:48] that lean heart final uh didn't see it was like a week ago whatever it was anyway the most recent

[02:01:55] man he played i think he paid Felix played Felix trust well what what i yeah he won he won

[02:02:01] he yeah he won in four games but what i what i might take away from it was man he was so aggressive

[02:02:09] like i think way i'm i i just feel bad for everybody when he comes home when he won two

[02:02:14] lean heart world championships without being good on the table right he you know now he's getting

[02:02:20] good on the table right so look out he's not gonna lose but it was because of his approach

[02:02:24] its intelligence his knowledge his fires competitiveness all of those things you surf the fact that

[02:02:30] his talent was good but still he was not a lean heart player yet now he is now now look at

[02:02:36] laying look out journey he was two to the five and then automatically five transition into shots

[02:02:41] and you know the stuff he does on tornadoes amazing but now he's starting to do it

[02:02:46] on on lean heart and then i see him like little things that he's picking up and doing

[02:02:51] on that table that he's probably gonna take and bring over to tornado he's just he's being stupid

[02:02:56] super i mean he's always been aggressive but he's being like super aggressive it's uh i'm excited

[02:03:01] to see him come home and play less than a year he's already at the top of the European points

[02:03:06] you know these is right is that a surprise to anyone he's right now he's been at the top anyway

[02:03:12] he can just be in over here he played enough and won enough first where he was pretty much

[02:03:16] been number one several years well what Tony needs and you ask him about it he says all

[02:03:21] care but what what Tony needs is a multi-table world championship

[02:03:24] i'm sure he doesn't have he'll tell you though he's at heart i don't i don't care jam i've

[02:03:29] got everything else but somewhere inside of him he he knows that's that's the only thing

[02:03:34] that's the one thing uh that that he really needs and i thought when doubt he gets one maybe next

[02:03:40] we'll betty betty does will we see him for hall of fame this year maybe i don't know um

[02:03:48] i don't know or the world well i thought he said worlds and Florida state he'd come back for

[02:03:54] Florida state and world that's what i heard okay i don't know yeah we hope so i mean Tony obviously

[02:04:00] you know such a such a staple on the tour and despite the fact he won you know 85% of the time

[02:04:05] a player still appreciated him being there as as we did his fans in in commentators and so

[02:04:11] hey guys before we we let off thanks thanks for having us on time oh it was a lot of flying

[02:04:16] i turned into kind of a turn into kind of a round table here didn't it with Donald jumping on board

[02:04:21] the massacast the massacast Donald Wilson i love the spontaneity on him come on i took it easy on him

[02:04:32] i love you guys i'm not gonna stick around i can't stick around to upload or download i got a split

[02:04:36] man but there's been a lot of hard i want to do this again sooner than later man i want to do this

[02:04:40] again sooner than later oh absolutely hey hey hey mark i got a question for you don't do anything

[02:04:46] ethnic right now careful you're you're talking about those uh what what Turner was that you

[02:04:53] was talking about i don't know we do 64 players under don't yes i can feel that bracket any day of

[02:04:59] the week with 64 people paying five hundred and a day away tomorrow so wins the next one do

[02:05:07] you miss the beginning of the show if i was throwing tournaments i throw five a year but i'm not

[02:05:11] throwing tournaments i did that so i could have people and remember the investors i brought to Vegas

[02:05:16] to meet with you they gave me two hundred eighty thousand dollars to film a three episode iron man

[02:05:22] to sell to ESPN and i didn't want to do it because you need me you need me mark it's time to work

[02:05:29] you need this personality for that that's right you need that's right anyway if you know i can throw

[02:05:34] another one i can throw another one this year if i feel like yeah i just don't have the

[02:05:37] energy for i don't want to throw tournaments dude this has your question i don't feel like throwing

[02:05:40] tournaments i don't either yeah by the way do you want me you want me to throw one

[02:05:48] i had one called the little invitational for 32 women and there's the iron man

[02:05:52] invitation of the bracket was half-filled in like less than a day i had the bracket half-filled

[02:05:56] small modern milder generation like most like 16 people not two people do that do that do that

[02:06:02] iron man you were talking about pros and up i'm not man i know i know let's do this again soon guys

[02:06:09] i'm sure a lot of fun months this easy gets going here we'd start maybe getting close to Vegas

[02:06:14] um which i don't know whether i'll be there or not i hope so okay i hope i'll see man i'll find out

[02:06:19] we will maybe not after this show maybe not yeah that's possible i allowed for that possibility

[02:06:27] okay thank you Tom yeah i'll see you guys next weekend guys miss the game

[02:06:32] not the guys ever one i don't want you to read the y'all next weekend and thanks everybody shout out

[02:06:37] to everybody oh yeah thanks for tuning in on twitch tv and and this has been episode number

[02:06:43] 192 the reckoning with the return of uh stevens and torus and of course donald Wilson so thanks for

[02:06:52] tuning in uh Randy anything else you want to add before we we sign off now i great show had a

[02:06:58] blast mark just thank you mr. donald of course looking forward to seeing everybody next week at uh

[02:07:03] kickoff and uh yeah be safe safe travels and uh that's it have a good night tko here we come and uh

[02:07:10] stick around for foos talk lives tournament beats foos ball tournaments are everywhere foos talk live

[02:07:18] proudly presents a weekly update of events near you with the foos talk live tournament beat

[02:07:24] here's what's up it's the twenty twenty four tour kickoff with the twenty thousand dollar

[02:07:30] Kentucky state championships February 1st through the fourth at the chlory and hotel in Lexington

[02:07:36] Kentucky don't miss the dfw championships of foos ball February 16th through the 18th

[02:07:42] vendors sports and spirits in rachoredson texas don't miss the twenty twenty four south Dakota

[02:07:48] state foos ball championships February 23rd through the 25th at royal river casino and hotel flandro south

[02:07:56] Dakota the 508 foos ball club presents the first annual wicked winter foos ball tournament

[02:08:02] February 24th at dawn carloson fall river massachusetts planned your vacation with the

[02:08:09] twenty twenty four Costa Rica summer beach tournament March 7th through the 10th

[02:08:14] amipola casino and beach hotel in jaco Costa Rica it's the twenty twenty four Wisconsin state

[02:08:21] championship set for march 21st through the 24th at the chlory and hotel in apple tin Wisconsin

[02:08:28] five when a foos ball presents the mad march smashdown march 30th at the trick shots billiards

[02:08:34] and wicked eatery clifton park new york two gun productions presents the 2024 Oklahoma state

[02:08:41] championship april fourth through the 7th at maguze in talsa oklahoma the 2024 canadian foosball tour

[02:08:49] continues with the canadian hall of fame open april fifth through the 7th tailgator sports

[02:08:56] entertainment and food auto a canada international foos ball promotions presents the 2024 hall of fame

[02:09:04] April 17th through the 21st at the westgate resort and casino in las vegas navata the 2024

[02:09:12] Illinois state championships june 7th through the night poplar creek bowl huffmanestates

[02:09:18] Illinois the 2024 tornado championships officially on august 28th through september 2nd at the

[02:09:25] clarion hotel in lexington kentucky the 2024 masters open championships is set for september

[02:09:32] 26th through the 29th at the holiday in clear water florida mark your calendar for the 2024

[02:09:38] Michigan state championships october 11th through the 13th and lancing michigan or details coming soon

[02:09:45] two gun productions present the 2024 Halloween open october 31st through november 3rd at maguze in

[02:09:53] talsa oklahoma it's the 2024 north carolina state championships november 28th through december 1st

[02:10:01] at the crown pausic in ashville north carolina each week we do our best to give you the most up to date

[02:10:07] listing of foosball tournaments near you if you have an event you'd like to add send us all the

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