When you read over 200 social media comments from foosbal players on one topic...that is the making a good show. Tom, Randy and an unexpected guest cover the hot topic-the championship format.
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[00:02:10] Well hello there
[00:02:15] It's episode number 206 of FoosTalk Live
[00:02:19] Hey I'm Tom
[00:02:20] Thanks for joining us yet again for another episode on Twitch TV
[00:02:24] We're looking forward to a very interesting night tonight
[00:02:29] We're doing something a little different with no guest
[00:02:32] And so without further ado
[00:02:34] I do need to welcome my partner in crime
[00:02:38] Of course, Ryder Raposo from the great state of Alabama
[00:02:41] Welcome Randy
[00:02:43] Hey Tom, how are you this evening?
[00:02:44] You know, cannot complain at this stage
[00:02:46] I think so far so good
[00:02:48] And by the way, Buffalo Foosball's already chiming in on the chat
[00:02:51] Saying no social distancing
[00:02:53] I guess we should probably change our intro
[00:02:56] Because it's, you know, we have that in our intro
[00:03:00] But thanks for paying attention
[00:03:03] Yeah wow, nitpick
[00:03:06] Oh it's starting already
[00:03:09] It's going to be a good one Tom
[00:03:11] I'm palm man
[00:03:12] I can feel it
[00:03:13] Yeah
[00:03:14] So essentially, if you saw our quick promo this evening on Facebook
[00:03:19] We've been noticing a lot of comments of late
[00:03:23] About well, this thing called championship format
[00:03:27] Which has been utilized for a couple of tour stops this year
[00:03:30] TKO being one and the Hall of Fame Classic
[00:03:34] So there's some opinions
[00:03:37] Or at least a few anyway
[00:03:40] Yeah, and for anyone listening that maybe is new to the show
[00:03:44] New to Foosball, new to tournament foosball doesn't know
[00:03:47] What's been the standard for years
[00:03:49] Is what's known as a double elimination format
[00:03:51] Which means if you win
[00:03:54] Right, the bracket is split in two
[00:03:57] You go right, you go left
[00:03:58] Winners stay to the right, losers go to the left
[00:04:00] So in order to win the tournament
[00:04:02] You have to not lose
[00:04:04] If you lose once, you go to the losers bracket
[00:04:06] If you lose again, you're eliminated
[00:04:08] Essentially the winner of the loser
[00:04:10] Gets to play the winner of the winners
[00:04:12] Has to beat them twice
[00:04:13] Because again it's double elimination
[00:04:15] And if the winner stays
[00:04:17] They can lose a match
[00:04:19] Or stay undefeated to win the tournament
[00:04:22] And that's been the standard for tournament foosball
[00:04:24] For a very long time
[00:04:26] So what's been introduced recently
[00:04:28] Go ahead, Tom
[00:04:29] Yeah, no I was just going to say
[00:04:30] I mean I don't remember
[00:04:32] Other than Swiss format or monster format
[00:04:35] I don't know of anything else
[00:04:36] Something that wasn't
[00:04:37] Yeah
[00:04:38] Correct
[00:04:39] So essentially the double elimination
[00:04:41] So there's double and there's also single
[00:04:43] Single elimination is used
[00:04:45] There are a lot of single elimination formats
[00:04:47] Used overseas
[00:04:49] Mary, the standard IFP
[00:04:52] Does use single elimination for certain events
[00:04:55] Yes
[00:04:56] But this championship format has been introduced this year
[00:04:58] And again what that is is
[00:05:00] The same bracket
[00:05:02] The double elimination bracket
[00:05:04] It just eliminates certain components
[00:05:06] So if you make it
[00:05:08] If you go to the right side of the bracket
[00:05:10] You don't lose
[00:05:11] The winner of the winners
[00:05:13] Is technically considered the finals
[00:05:15] And then the winner of the loser's side
[00:05:17] And that's it
[00:05:18] Third, that's the top you can do
[00:05:20] That's where you maxed out
[00:05:21] So if you lose one time
[00:05:23] The best you can do is third place
[00:05:25] So let me just ask you this question
[00:05:27] We'll talk more about this later too
[00:05:29] Because somebody else mentioned it
[00:05:30] But technically
[00:05:32] The person who goes
[00:05:33] The two teams that meet in the finals
[00:05:35] First
[00:05:37] They're battling for first
[00:05:39] And let's say
[00:05:41] You get beat
[00:05:43] You're technically now second place
[00:05:45] However, you've only lost once
[00:05:47] And the team that wins the losers
[00:05:49] Is only lost once
[00:05:51] Correct
[00:05:53] So you have two teams
[00:05:55] Two teams that have only lost once
[00:05:57] But technically one is second
[00:05:59] One is third
[00:06:01] Historically speaking second does pay
[00:06:03] Better than third
[00:06:05] Okay
[00:06:07] Now again
[00:06:09] We're going to be talking about this
[00:06:11] There was
[00:06:13] I'm going to say his name because
[00:06:15] I think everybody knows who he is
[00:06:17] But there's a certain player
[00:06:19] His name is Billy Pappas
[00:06:21] He sparked a little bit of a debate
[00:06:23] About this format
[00:06:25] And there were some comments
[00:06:27] From a lot of players
[00:06:29] Top players, good players
[00:06:31] New players
[00:06:33] And everybody has an opinion
[00:06:35] And I did see one in there
[00:06:37] And essentially what you're talking about
[00:06:39] Tom about second and third
[00:06:41] And I think it was Arthur Mitchell
[00:06:43] And Arthur's been around Fuswell
[00:06:45] For a very, very long time
[00:06:47] Sure
[00:06:49] And he said
[00:06:51] He made the point that you just made
[00:06:53] Second and third are the same
[00:06:55] Why is the money different
[00:06:57] Right
[00:06:59] So people are really starting
[00:07:01] To pick this championship format
[00:07:03] Apart
[00:07:05] And I think it was Arthur Mitchell
[00:07:07] And Arthur's been around Fuswell
[00:07:10] And I just want to
[00:07:13] I want to preface
[00:07:15] Our conversation with this
[00:07:17] I love Fuswell
[00:07:19] Right, I'm a Fuswell player
[00:07:21] I enjoy Fuswell
[00:07:23] I'll play on a Walmart table
[00:07:25] I don't care
[00:07:27] Whatever the format is
[00:07:29] I want to play Fuswell
[00:07:31] And I know I come on here
[00:07:33] And I try to be entertaining
[00:07:35] And I talk some smack
[00:07:37] But at the end of the day
[00:07:39] I'm just going to ask for Fuswell
[00:07:41] Legitimately, right
[00:07:43] So I'm just going to give
[00:07:45] My opinion on the championship format
[00:07:47] If that's okay Tom
[00:07:49] Okay, let's begin with that
[00:07:51] Let's start with that
[00:07:53] Okay, so
[00:07:55] I've been playing tournament
[00:07:57] Fuswell for over 20 years
[00:07:59] I've won events out of the winners
[00:08:01] I've won events out of the losers
[00:08:03] I've been double dipped
[00:08:05] It's just a part of it
[00:08:07] You know it's gonna
[00:08:09] It's just you have to be prepared for it
[00:08:11] It's a thing, it's Fuswell, right
[00:08:13] So in this championship format
[00:08:15] I've played four events
[00:08:17] And I've been
[00:08:19] To three finals
[00:08:21] In the championship format
[00:08:23] That's great
[00:08:25] I played open doubles
[00:08:27] Was putting the losers early
[00:08:29] Of open doubles
[00:08:31] And we tried the battle our way back
[00:08:33] To get in the money
[00:08:35] Pro doubles, made it to the finals
[00:08:37] Yeah
[00:08:39] Took second
[00:08:41] And then the Mississippi Open
[00:08:43] Which was a great little five grander
[00:08:47] Run championship format
[00:08:48] For pro and open
[00:08:50] I was in the finals of pro doubles
[00:08:52] Lost again
[00:08:54] And finals opened doubles and I won
[00:08:56] Now
[00:08:58] My opinion on the format
[00:09:00] I like it
[00:09:02] Right, I don't dislike it
[00:09:04] This is what I take away from it
[00:09:06] Tom
[00:09:08] All it proves to me is that
[00:09:10] Events can be run in a timely manner
[00:09:12] True
[00:09:14] And two matches
[00:09:16] Are not gonna break the weekend
[00:09:18] Okay
[00:09:20] So if we play the losers
[00:09:22] Bracket out
[00:09:24] And then we play one of the losers
[00:09:26] And then we play the finals
[00:09:28] It's not gonna
[00:09:30] In my opinion, it's not gonna break
[00:09:32] A tournament, right
[00:09:34] And I understand that
[00:09:36] Timing and all
[00:09:38] I still think it's something
[00:09:40] That could be done if
[00:09:42] And again, this is my opinion
[00:09:44] I'm not speaking for anybody else
[00:09:46] I want everybody to know I like Mary
[00:09:48] I genuinely like Mary
[00:09:50] You know, Mary is
[00:09:52] Mary works, she supports foosball
[00:09:54] She's running tournament
[00:09:56] I'm not saying anything derogatory about Mary
[00:09:58] I'm not saying anything derogatory about what she does
[00:10:00] In my opinion, if you
[00:10:02] If you schedule it right
[00:10:04] And you
[00:10:06] Maybe eliminate some of the
[00:10:08] Fluff events
[00:10:10] There's no reason why you can't prioritize
[00:10:12] Open doubles and open singles
[00:10:14] Because again, as a pro player myself
[00:10:16] With
[00:10:18] You know
[00:10:20] Aspirations to someday be a master
[00:10:22] What do I get
[00:10:24] For working hard and being a top player
[00:10:26] Right, I get to pay more
[00:10:28] I get to play less. And now on top of it, you're taking matches away from me. You're eliminating
[00:10:35] the ability for me to come back and win out of the losers. I think that if the best players
[00:10:43] should be prioritized, the biggest matches should be prioritized. And again, I want everybody to
[00:10:50] understand if you're listening. I was a rookie once. I started right where you are.
[00:10:56] I've been where you are. I've done what you've done. I've gone. I've played 20 events. I've done it.
[00:11:00] Right? Nobody ever prioritized me. I was never a priority. I was just a foosball player. I was a
[00:11:09] consumer. If you look at it from this perspective, this is a product where consumers, right?
[00:11:14] I'm a consumer and if I like the product, I'm going to keep consuming. And if I don't,
[00:11:19] I have the choice to not. So I love foosball. I'm going to keep playing. I enjoy it. I'm
[00:11:25] going to find it somewhere. I'm going to do it, right? But I think if you're running a tour that's
[00:11:30] supposed to be one for the players and then two supported by the players, then I think the players
[00:11:39] should be happy with the product. And that's just my opinion. This is, I mean, we're living in not
[00:11:47] a perfect world, right? Foosball not perfect. Basketball not perfect. Football not perfect.
[00:11:55] But why do all the other sports that are out there use something different?
[00:12:01] Money. Okay. So let me ask you a question. When was the last time you saw somebody walking down
[00:12:08] the street with a Tony Spreederman jersey on or a Ryan Moore jersey or a Billy Pappas jersey
[00:12:13] or a Grand Amunio jersey? I got a Johnny Horton jersey. Okay. And you might have the only one
[00:12:19] in existence. You might want to see how much that's worth. It's a t-shirt. Come on. But you know,
[00:12:25] again, nobody nobody's paying money to come watch us play. You know, we don't have,
[00:12:31] you know, billion dollar corporate sponsorships. Listen, I'm going to tell you something.
[00:12:34] If Mary was like, Hey, nationals, $50,000, right? Free entry, free entry. This is,
[00:12:42] this is the format, right? Nobody can, doesn't matter what the format is. Nobody can complain.
[00:12:47] You can't complain. It's free entry. You get a shot to come make money and you, and you got,
[00:12:52] I mean, you got to get there. You got to stay. You got to eat. But at the end of the day,
[00:12:56] if she's flipping the bill, she can decide how we're playing. If she, if we get there
[00:12:59] and she says, you know what, we're not even playing foosball. You got to flip quarters
[00:13:02] for the match. Ah, you know what? I still, I got a 50 50 chance of winning the money. So
[00:13:06] I'm still, you know, I'm just saying, but if we're, if, if like I said, I'm a consumer, right?
[00:13:12] I go, I go to Costco and I buy steak and I see three different kinds of steak. I'm going to,
[00:13:18] I'm going to look at one, which cuts are best and two, which ones are the best price for me
[00:13:24] that I can afford, which ones taste the best. You know, there's things I look at Tom. So
[00:13:28] take, take the ribeye and that's all I buy. That's all I buy, Tom. Yeah. That's all I buy.
[00:13:32] So, you know, but, but again, when it comes to foosball, it's like,
[00:13:37] you know, if there's no players, there's no tour. So
[00:13:42] man, it's, it's a double-edged sword. It's, it's a really, it's, it's hard, Tom. It's really
[00:13:47] hard, you know, I get what you're saying here. No, it's, it, here's the thing. And at the TKO,
[00:13:55] I saw this in action and there are a couple of things that I want to say because, you know,
[00:14:00] I'm just a guy standing on the outside watching this thing happen. But it was exciting because
[00:14:07] there was, there was a specific time where we got a, got a chance to see the singles, the open
[00:14:13] singles finals and the open, open doubles finals. And there was actually, by happenstance,
[00:14:20] there was TV cameras there for the, for the open singles finals. And it was Tommy Yorne
[00:14:25] and of course, Ryan Moore going at it. And everybody was focused on that one match.
[00:14:30] You know, it was, it was really pretty, pretty spectacular. Now I don't pretend to say that,
[00:14:36] okay, that couldn't have happened if it was double elimination. But at least they had a specific
[00:14:41] time. Yeah. And, and it was a great match. And the fact that, you know, everybody was able to
[00:14:47] watch and look, I mean, I went up to my room and took a dump. I'm not gonna lie. So whatever.
[00:14:53] Okay. It's, it's, it's another final. It was a good final. And, but I'm just saying like,
[00:14:58] you know, sometimes, you know, to get a break, to just go eat sometimes is difficult at one of
[00:15:03] these things. So, you know, but, you know, thank you to the guy who lit something on fire to get
[00:15:09] the fires there and the news crew. Like, I mean, it was, it was all circumstantial.
[00:15:15] And, and again, I was at the kickoff. I thought that tournament ran great. Oh,
[00:15:19] it was one of the, I had a great time. It was one of the best run tournaments I'd been to in a long,
[00:15:24] long, long time. But I'm already hearing grumbling, Tom, about national all the,
[00:15:32] all the events are championship format and I'm already hearing all the events like from,
[00:15:36] from open all the way down. That's what I'm hearing, buddy. Wow. Okay. So I'm already
[00:15:42] hearing from some low level players that they're not liking it because well, if I lose and again,
[00:15:50] you know, uh-oh, uh-oh, we're being joined. This has to be Donald Wilson. Is it Donald?
[00:15:57] It has to be who else just jumps on here. Who just raised the terminator? It's no, it's,
[00:16:03] it's Mark, Mark, Mark Torres, the terminator, the tour. This guy, dude, this guy. Hey,
[00:16:09] can you guys hear me? You know, we gotta hear you. Who's the bouncer tonight? I gotta,
[00:16:13] I'm on fire the bouncer. Geez. You're the bouncer, Tom. What the hell? What's up? What's up, Mark?
[00:16:20] What's up dudes? I thought I was just joining man. I thought this is a good lively conversation.
[00:16:24] Oh, isn't that though? Didn't it just get more lively, Mark? Didn't it?
[00:16:31] I was doing some video editing stuff and I saw you guys, I started watching them like,
[00:16:39] man, I've heard, I followed that through at home, Billy's page. Just hysterical, dude.
[00:16:44] Oh yeah. I saw what you post. There's only one Billy Pappas. Oh yeah. Isn't that the truth?
[00:16:49] And we have a few more comments we want to share tonight as well, by the way.
[00:16:55] We gleaned from a whole, there was one in one post, there was over 200 comments.
[00:17:01] Yeah. So you could kick me out. Am I okay? I wanted to know you're good. You're good. No,
[00:17:08] the more the merrier.
[00:17:12] Listen, man, I was some things you just said resonated with me.
[00:17:17] So you're right, man. People choose with their wallets at the end of the day, right?
[00:17:22] Yep. Choose with their wallets. I think that's a and I'm a big fan of people doing new stuff.
[00:17:28] I like people doing those. I think it's great. Whose ball needs an injection of new stuff?
[00:17:32] Yes. I think some things though are, I think some things are weak in terms of the argument, for example.
[00:17:38] I think if you do it because you want, if you do it because you think you could actually get
[00:17:44] media there and you actually get media there and it's compelling. Well, that's what free does
[00:17:49] basically free. So what free does with the ITSF events is it's hilarious. So free describes
[00:17:55] this way. He uses American baseball as an analogy. The American baseball games are four hours,
[00:18:02] three and a half, four hours. Oh yeah. And it is absurd. You got to love baseball, right?
[00:18:06] And even base people that love baseball unless you're psychotic, you get up, you walk around,
[00:18:10] you do stuff, right? So foosball tournaments are 14 hours, right? And to get like,
[00:18:15] to invite people with money, investors, media to come and just say shotgun come at 9 30 to
[00:18:22] 5 p.m. for free. That's absurd. He's like, I want to condense to three hour period where I'm going to
[00:18:29] have a show. So there's all kinds of stuff going on fine. But with this three hour, four hour period,
[00:18:33] we needed it to be a show because if I bring people through here with money,
[00:18:37] I need them to be entertained. Okay. And so you and I get that. So what if we just took
[00:18:43] the pros in the masters separate that out for the weekend? Put that at a specific time, place,
[00:18:50] you name it. But do we still stick with the championship format there because we want to
[00:18:56] time it out perfectly or? Well, let me finish my thought because I think there's another
[00:19:01] underlying issue that I think you point out. So what the foosball customer wants is not,
[00:19:11] it's a different customer than the media customer. Oh sure. So the foosball customer,
[00:19:16] and especially in IFP and Mary's case where your bread and butter are entry fees,
[00:19:21] they want to play foosball. They want to play a lot of foosball. They want to have a foosball
[00:19:25] experience. So I mean, it is current form. If I'm a foosball customer, I'm not doing
[00:19:31] cartwheels for this format to your point. Right. I think that I mean, I know that one of the
[00:19:36] issues with Swiss and I'm a big fan of Swiss by the way, and I'm a big fan of number. I did
[00:19:41] Thunderdome. Thunderdome was race to 10. You play like guaranteed seven matches,
[00:19:46] and then you went into an elimination bracket. What you do when you have that kind of situation
[00:19:51] is you get people with the look before lots of experience, lots of competitive play. You get to
[00:19:55] satiate that opportunity to grow your game. You get to compete against different people,
[00:19:59] get to make friends. I think that's a big part of the experience that gets left out
[00:20:02] in this particular format. Sure. And so I think there are, I think that this format,
[00:20:08] as I'll say, talking about size of my mouth, I like when people do new things.
[00:20:12] From the feedback I've heard, I haven't experienced it myself, so there's a limitation there.
[00:20:15] From the feedback I've heard, it needs a lot of work if they're going to maintain,
[00:20:21] keep the customer base satisfied. And then one other thing I'll throw out there,
[00:20:25] I think it's like, dude, listen, man, this idea of streaming and like 600 people watching
[00:20:32] your stream is not ever going to get you paid. As a matter of fact, when you do the math,
[00:20:37] 3,000 people watching your stream is not going to get you paid.
[00:20:40] No, you need like 50,000 views a month. Yes. Yeah. Minimum 50,000 views.
[00:20:46] Yeah, because look, we don't like, as far as inside food is concerned, we don't consider
[00:20:53] foosball sports network or modern foosball or foosball TV as competitors. It's not.
[00:21:00] Foosball TV has the best product in the world. They have the most of the biggest
[00:21:03] market in the world. They have the most streams. They've streamed tens of thousands,
[00:21:06] they've streamed to hundreds of thousands of people and they're not making any money.
[00:21:10] There's no money in this. So, to put it all, to try to format this so that it could be streamed
[00:21:17] to 600 people is silly. Anyway, I said a lot. I'm not really agreeing with you.
[00:21:23] No, I think there's- Who's you? Who's you? You're pointing at the screen guys.
[00:21:27] Just three of us here. Who are you pointing at?
[00:21:29] The man with the hood. Yeah, that's right.
[00:21:32] Well, listen. No, but again, Mark, look from a consumer standpoint, it's true and you make,
[00:21:40] I mean, you make excellent points as well, but I'm going to tell you,
[00:21:43] I'm here in grumbling some people who have never experienced the format.
[00:21:47] I've experienced the format. I don't dislike the format, but there's no incentive once
[00:21:54] you go into the loser's bracket. Zero, zero. Oh, I get to take third and split 300 bucks.
[00:22:03] I spent 150 bucks on dinner Friday night with my wife. You think I care about winning 150 bucks?
[00:22:07] Okay, baller. Hey, I'm going to- What do you want to go guy? I spent that at McDonald's.
[00:22:13] McDonald's is expensive now, bro. What are you getting at McDonald's?
[00:22:19] A lot. I'm getting a lot. I eat a lot.
[00:22:21] The steak.
[00:22:22] I'm just saying, yeah. Dude, a number four is like $80 now. I'm just saying, it's like,
[00:22:29] you know, again, people are going to play. Like you said, foosball players want to play
[00:22:35] foosball. I love the Swiss format. I think the Swiss format is freaking killer dude.
[00:22:39] Like you- It is.
[00:22:40] You raised it. I played in Georgia yesterday. They had a draw. It was a Swiss format.
[00:22:44] We played six rounds. I was so tired. It's like, I don't want to play this much foosball.
[00:22:49] The hell out of here? You know, six, six raised to tens and then top four teams go into a final.
[00:22:54] I was like, I don't- I'm done. I'm tired. To make it to the finals?
[00:22:58] No, I didn't. I didn't care. No, I won the- I won the bring. I won the bring.
[00:23:02] We ended up splitting the bring, but I'm saying dude, it was like,
[00:23:07] I go to an event now. Like I go to an IFP event, a weekend event. I play two events, maybe
[00:23:13] three, because it's just- it's a lot and I just want to focus and do my best. But I remember
[00:23:17] being a rookie and playing everything I could. I'm not saying that rookies shouldn't or lower rank,
[00:23:22] but like you want to get more bang for your buck. You want to play a lot of foosball, fine.
[00:23:26] But again, there's so much to consider. One, the structure. Two, like there's no incentive to
[00:23:33] move up. I think- I think scheduling is an issue. I think there's too many ranks.
[00:23:39] I just- like there's- there are things that could be done that could fix this and make it better.
[00:23:44] But at the end of the day, and again, I've- I prefaced with this. I like Mary. I appreciate what she
[00:23:52] does. Anybody promoting foosball? Thank you, right? But at the end of the day, it feels like
[00:23:59] she's trying to- she's trying to get our money, get the tournament done with,
[00:24:04] and move on to the next one. And that's just- that's just how- from a player standpoint, how it feels.
[00:24:10] That's it. That's the feeling. That's the feeling. That's the feeling. Because again, if it's for-
[00:24:16] if it's for the players, if it's for us, like you say it is, then you gotta listen to what we're
[00:24:22] saying. You gotta- you gotta listen to what we're saying. There's still time to evolve. I
[00:24:26] like to imagine it could evolve and be something else. I've heard it all dude. And it's funny
[00:24:31] how emotional it gets because people end up with really a biased, loyal commitment. It was like
[00:24:37] politics, right? People like I hate it. I love it. I support it because of your friends or whatever.
[00:24:42] When you- when you get through all of it, there's- it can be evolved. It can be changed. I think
[00:24:48] there's- there's many creative ways to do things. I'm not convinced that the championship
[00:24:53] format is what everybody is gonna make a general population happy with it. So
[00:25:01] I mean, how do you think that's gonna affect the nationals though? If everybody's- it's a-
[00:25:06] the poll says 85% of the people who took that poll said no. I don't like the championship format.
[00:25:12] And so- yeah, there's a new face. There's a new- yeah, there's a new Facebook group. If anybody-
[00:25:16] nobody knows or anybody or whatever you want to check it out, but it's called the- the
[00:25:20] Fools Ball Players Union. It's not technically a union. You don't have to pay dues or anything.
[00:25:24] Right. You're not gonna get- you're not gonna get a pension. You're not gonna get medical.
[00:25:28] It's a group. It's a group. You go check it out and there's a poll in there right now and it's
[00:25:32] basically- it's just championship format for and against and people are voting. And there's a
[00:25:37] couple hundred votes in there and right now it's like 85% against. Who started the page? I'm curious.
[00:25:43] I'm not- I'm not throwing that name out there. If you- if you want to go check it, look it's
[00:25:47] my- it's a guy I know. But if you- you can go there. You can go there and see his name.
[00:25:52] You go there and see- what state is he from?
[00:25:55] Come on man. Roll card, baby. Roll card. Let's go.
[00:25:58] Wow. Wow. Wow.
[00:26:01] No it's um- I'm just you know if- if Nationals is gonna be- it's gonna be championship format
[00:26:07] from the top to the bottom. I mean it's the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. How's that gonna affect
[00:26:11] their attendance? I mean- I don't know we're gonna find out. I guess so. All right. Well this
[00:26:16] goes back to economics man like people vote with their pocket books. Yep. And it just
[00:26:21] takes- someone else throws a tournament and you know and this is all the other
[00:26:25] line thing here too is I'm not a fan of double elimination in its current form just because
[00:26:29] of the headache that caused right? So I'm a fan of it when like you know Texas State does a great
[00:26:34] job with double elimination. Colorado actually does a great job. Oh yeah. Some of those
[00:26:37] some of those events go late in Colorado but still so you could do that differently and
[00:26:41] have fun with it but- Well that's because Colorado's they get a thousand people that's
[00:26:45] why I mean that's how you expect. Well like Texas, Texas on their flyer they give you the time brackets
[00:26:52] they give you the events you can pick an event and that's how you eliminate conflicts it makes
[00:26:56] I mean it's little things little things it's nice. Yeah. It's nice. I've been to Texas State
[00:27:01] it's great they do a great job. They do. Oh yeah. That's always been great. So
[00:27:05] I don't know like if some people start throwing tournaments on the same weekend
[00:27:09] as Mary's events then you'll see you'll see what happens with people choosing
[00:27:14] right. Right. And the margins look in the other thing the elephant in the room is that
[00:27:19] as the population of Fuzers has gotten smaller you have to you have to
[00:27:25] accelerate the amount of revenue get captured per person so you add more events the margins
[00:27:29] get smaller so every single person doesn't come to your tournament hurts you. So yeah
[00:27:33] that's why people thinking whether you're losing 30 to 40 people can put you like in the red
[00:27:38] right. So these things are very sensitive. We wanted to share a couple of comments because
[00:27:44] there's so many there is one in fact we've had already in our in our raw feed on the Twitch TV
[00:27:52] comment section here from Buffalo Fuseball and just a quote here it says those extra
[00:27:57] couple of matches per event can break a medium sized tournament so that has to finish
[00:28:05] as a at the certain hour. Not a TKO though I also wouldn't recommend that to 16.
[00:28:24] That's a being facetious I'm sure. Yeah well traditionally the biggest offender
[00:28:32] of dragging a tournament was one like one standout player in 10 events in the finals of everything
[00:28:39] like it did like you know Brandon Munoz one year held up a whole tournament because he was
[00:28:44] like a hot novice in third or better. He was an expert he was an expert at I don't remember what
[00:28:52] it was but it might have been the kick something crazy but he was in the finals
[00:28:55] is so much crap he held everything up right yeah yeah and the way Texas State manages that
[00:29:01] is they give you limitations you can't play in every event and so when you do that it's very
[00:29:06] self-aware I'm going to lose money because I'm not going to take this guy's entry fee in nine events
[00:29:11] but you avoid the situations where one person holds up a whole tournament there are so many other
[00:29:16] things though like you could do double elimination they do their best and I'm not I'm not here
[00:29:20] to criticize anybody but you know how late matches start at in American tournaments like you know
[00:29:26] all the people that get to the damn table they do try they try to have runners and they try to call
[00:29:31] and they try to do a thing if people just were held to a higher standard and you just like forfeited
[00:29:36] more people that might in itself save you hours at a foosball tournament but for Americans man they're
[00:29:41] out there partying dude and they'll get to the table when they get there especially if they're
[00:29:45] colluding like two friends or two people like they're like hey man or when they turn in their
[00:29:49] match cards or whatever like that's the worst dude that's the worst the match is over and they like
[00:29:57] well we're gonna wait to turn our result in because we want to we want to do something extra
[00:30:01] curricular and it's like man and again if you think about it right if if if six matches
[00:30:10] does that for 10 minutes you know that's an hour that we lose so right you know and and
[00:30:15] it happens more than that so we're losing hours at a time at a tournament where you know again you
[00:30:20] have you have people going there to play that are serious about and then you get a people that look
[00:30:24] I've said before foosball is different for everybody I get it but it's there has to be a standard
[00:30:30] there has to be a standard if you don't then then it's just kind of like flailing around trying
[00:30:34] to find something that works yeah like the championship format yeah but I mean what like
[00:30:42] but you gotta try something you gotta try something just just I'm all for change I am I
[00:30:48] have no problem trying new things it doesn't bother me I'm like I'm good and and like I said that
[00:30:53] the the TKO I thought was great tournament ran great I enjoyed I had a great time uh it was
[00:30:59] one of the first tournaments in a long time where I got to play and I got to just have
[00:31:03] some downtime to just watch matches and talk to people and I enjoyed it I really really really
[00:31:10] did um I just you know again I didn't think there was going to be this much like kickback from players
[00:31:16] about it I mean I didn't think people were going to be this upset so did you want to share with
[00:31:22] uh with us your your first because we have these comments here they're written down
[00:31:26] do you want to share with this uh the the first one oh you got to put your glasses on
[00:31:30] see oh randor reposa with glasses on this is a good one no no hold on and this one I'm
[00:31:36] gonna read listen I'm gonna read the whole thing and this is not me this is somebody else I'm not
[00:31:42] going to say this out this about okay as a viewer I hate it championship format makes half the matches
[00:31:48] right in parentheses the entire loser bracket pretty much meaningless to watch
[00:31:52] I suspect that it also makes those matches meaningless to play just go back and watch
[00:31:56] some of the losers bracket matches from Vegas half of them are messing around uh or phoning it in
[00:32:01] which okay I don't mind watching some masters mess around anyway on the other hand if Vegas had
[00:32:07] stuck to double a limb we would have gotten to see Tony and Bjorn versus Brandon and Terry for second
[00:32:13] and then possibly maybe likely Tommy and Ryan versus Tony and Bjorn in the finals
[00:32:17] that would have been an awesome match uh potentially epic maybe you don't know we don't know the
[00:32:23] future we can't guarantee who's gonna win there's and then shorter this is him kind of
[00:32:28] shortening his whole statement from where I'm sitting the championship format sucks about a mile
[00:32:36] to about a mile and a half of soft wing well I feel attacked well put why do you feel attacked
[00:32:45] because a mile and a mile and a half of soft wing is my middle name
[00:32:51] we had no idea somehow knew I somehow knew that was coming we had no idea
[00:32:56] listen yeah but if it's a small I'm just saying if it's as thin as if it's as thin as a piece of
[00:33:03] yarn it doesn't matter if it's a mile long so believe me oh well you want another one you
[00:33:11] want another one you want another one what do you got you're temper with a positive there's
[00:33:17] literally there's okay you want a positive one I like the fact that the last two undefeated
[00:33:25] teams in the event get to play to see who is first or second it does make for more intense matches
[00:33:31] in the winners bracket for sure you do have to be on your a game from the start if a team is playing
[00:33:36] at their best and upset the top team to make it to the winners bracket final it's likely telling them
[00:33:40] you are not supposed to win so they will get uh they will get you back in the losers bracket
[00:33:45] final or finals I have double dipped many and also I've been double dipped as well I'm okay
[00:33:49] with the championship format as long as third place money and lower is fair most other sports in the
[00:33:59] it's the last two undefeated teams fighting it out for first and second my two cents so basically
[00:34:04] this is somebody who's saying they're fine with it as long as the money on the loser side
[00:34:09] is worth you know support is worth it supports people having to play back to get the money
[00:34:14] so uh now again mark you were listening did did you hear the when we talked about second and third
[00:34:19] essentially both being single losers how do you feel about that I don't know so like
[00:34:26] they get convoluted and my brain doesn't work very linear because the right what I'm ready hearing is
[00:34:31] what I'm ready hearing is why not let third place come up and challenge a winner take all
[00:34:36] match with the like let the team come out of the losers bracket and give them the option
[00:34:42] to challenge a winner take all match for all the money you mean what second place or the winner winner
[00:34:48] well like both like if it's about the money third place maybe third I mean I think you could you
[00:34:54] could embed something where um basically make the first place team look like first place team is
[00:34:59] like first place with an asterisk your bunch of cowards if you don't allow the the losers
[00:35:04] bracket team to challenge you for a winner take all match oh well I mean when the tournament's
[00:35:08] over you can do whatever you want with your money if you want to play for money but no I'm
[00:35:11] talking about attach it to the champ I don't know something because add some color man with the
[00:35:17] talking the issue is this the money is so small okay the money is so small that when you get to
[00:35:22] second and third these guys these masters who have been around for decades by the way have to work
[00:35:26] your tails off for a small return so for them it's okay so and then everybody loses right the
[00:35:32] master's not giving their best shot the people who want to be entertained are watching people
[00:35:37] phone it in everybody loses embed something yeah right zero embed something in there you
[00:35:43] could embed something in there whether it's Calcutta or like some maybe maybe it's um gosh I wonder if the
[00:35:49] I wonder if the um I wonder if the people will pay to like uh to like pay for them I don't know
[00:35:55] some the money is there somehow that whatever is left over to challenge the first place team
[00:36:00] for a winner take all match I don't know final three the final three and do something entertaining
[00:36:05] with that something that one way I know I know and I know what you could do it's super entertaining
[00:36:10] I know what you could do let them play foosball there's an idea there's no put a minute put a
[00:36:18] minute cage let them all fight whoever comes out alive gets all the money yeah so like like I don't
[00:36:24] know how to split the money the money I don't know how the first second and third money
[00:36:28] is split but like like if the first place team is guaranteed um 60 but well is it 50% and then
[00:36:34] it's like almost 25-25 um there should be a winner take all situation for that gives the
[00:36:40] the loser bracket team an incentive to climb out of the loser's bracket and gives the winning
[00:36:45] bra the winning the championship bracket team a reason to put their money on the line
[00:36:52] it's uh I mean there's there's there's ideas out there I'm sure that may help you just never
[00:36:58] know oh what and what about single elimination right if you get I actually go ahead I'm going to say
[00:37:06] if you get past a certain point maybe single elimination is something that needs to kick
[00:37:10] in because it seems like if I'm second place and I lose in that final I'm still only losing once
[00:37:18] and everybody else who's out lost twice yeah and then the winner the loser's only lost
[00:37:24] once again you have two teams that have only lost once yeah so second and third don't so second
[00:37:29] automatically take second they don't have to play again no third's playing for it's funny um
[00:37:36] yeah let the second place team challenge the third play let the third place team challenge
[00:37:40] a second place team for winner take all match and then let the whoever wins that challenge
[00:37:44] the first place team for winner take all match if we know we're just we're just literally
[00:37:48] talking about double elimination essentially right except what we're doing already but the money
[00:37:54] the money's on it gives a choice though right the first place team could say nah I'll take my 50%
[00:37:59] on this and I'll go home yeah it's a choice for them yeah well and then what about what about
[00:38:05] making what about making second and third place money the same and that's what it is second and
[00:38:10] third place money is the same no I'm saying no no it's not that way no no I'm saying but why not
[00:38:16] why not make second and third place money the equivalent because of the fact that they both
[00:38:19] lost once yeah and I'm gonna no and I'm gonna tell you what it's gonna incentivize me to want to play
[00:38:26] harder I mean I'm no I mean even you know knowing that like okay so let's just say first is a
[00:38:34] thousand seconds 500 and third is 250 instead of that it's you know you're talking five and
[00:38:41] 250 so it's so instead of that it's going to be you know 375 375 yeah or whatever right so
[00:38:47] I'm losing money I mean I'm still losing money if I don't win but I'm saying like I'm losing you know
[00:38:52] it's just gonna incentivize me to want to play better either way either way I'm you know I'm playing
[00:38:58] to win but it's just they have to do something either that or you put you have to play out the
[00:39:02] winner the I don't know man it's it the whole thing's tricky it's just weird yep and and like
[00:39:08] I said and I know Buffalo Fuseball made a comment about you know two matches breaking a mid-level
[00:39:13] tournament but again if you if you structure it right if you schedule it correctly if you don't let
[00:39:19] you know people play every freaking event and I don't know I don't know it's kind of pissing me off
[00:39:27] I kind of hang on a sec hang on a sec it's Tom I got I gotta go Tom I don't want to do this
[00:39:36] oh man see what you did to us mark geez
[00:39:42] god mark he starts something every time no um here's another contributor I just wanted to
[00:39:48] to read this one because it is more or less than a positive side but it says something like to the
[00:39:53] effective I like the fact that the the last two undefeated teams in the event get to play
[00:40:00] to see who is the first second it does make for more intense matches in the winner's bracket for sure
[00:40:07] you do have to be on your a game from the start if a if a team is playing at their best and upsets
[00:40:14] a team to make it to the winners bracket it's like telling them you're not supposed to win
[00:40:21] so they will get you back in the loser's bracket final or uh or or finals um
[00:40:28] um I have double dipped many and have also been double dipped as as well I'm okay with the championship
[00:40:34] format as long as third place money and lower is fair most read that same comment just read the same
[00:40:42] yeah yeah I think I did I think it must have been uh okay most other stuff I think I read that I
[00:40:47] read that Tom that was from uh that was from our friend those from our friend gotcha okay yeah
[00:40:53] yeah that was I just read I read that yeah I think that was the only positive one if I'm being honest
[00:40:57] okay let me read it now so you just keep doubling up on this I'll send it I'll send it to you
[00:41:06] no but it's like no and so from what I was told in that poll
[00:41:13] there was like 20 something people that were for it and a and a hundred and change against it
[00:41:20] and I saw some of the names and that's another thing like
[00:41:24] some of the names are people that have never played the format so you know some people
[00:41:28] aren't informed or have never tried it or maybe are scared to try it but I I I feel like foosball
[00:41:36] is in a good place at least at the grassroots level excuse me um you know they're they're
[00:41:42] especially down here in the south there's a lot of areas doing good things with foosball
[00:41:46] they're running good events we got people that are excited about it that are that are putting time
[00:41:50] and money into it and and you know I'll be honest with you and and people can get upset with me
[00:41:57] if the national tour blows up you know I'm gonna be upset but at the same time I'm still gonna be
[00:42:02] able to play foosball because we have plenty of local stuff down here so I don't want I
[00:42:06] don't want the national tour to blow I don't want that to happen you know and and Mary Mary
[00:42:11] works this her job I do believe she should be paid I that's not that's never been an issue
[00:42:17] that's you know I it is work but at the end of the day like I said if this is supposed to be
[00:42:23] for the players and it's supported by the players it's it's a product for us that we consume that
[00:42:28] we support then I feel like we should have some say in how things are done and that's just my
[00:42:34] opinion so as a consumer that's that's how I feel so yeah so if we're working consumers though
[00:42:46] we can we can choose I mean I can go eat a steak yeah I want to go to Longhorn I
[00:42:53] don't want to go to Texas courthouse I want to go to Perry's or like you know yeah I think I
[00:42:58] I try to articulate this earlier in the call that foosball is a small margin thing man like like
[00:43:06] you need like three verticals to be profitable right you got entry fees and then you got hotel room
[00:43:11] blocks yeah and you got selling tables you can't like and that's and like it's still small for me
[00:43:19] personally I would never I would never stream to to be profitable or throw foosball turns
[00:43:26] to be profitable I've never even attempted I just it's not a thing I I've done my own ideas
[00:43:31] and promoting let me get let me get to a point though uh because of small margin and it's laughable to
[00:43:38] like think this is competition ITSF's come into town and they're got a big sponsor called the
[00:43:43] Loro and they have their own it's their own thing right now I like American I said this on a
[00:43:48] podcast the other day I like American foosball turns for what they are they're they're a
[00:43:53] party it's its own culture it's gots nuance it's its own thing ITSF is a different thing
[00:43:58] ITSF is there again they want you to dress like an athlete and they got a condensed time period
[00:44:02] where they're gonna parade people talk about that and it's like either these are different
[00:44:07] and I'm not discriminating one against the other I think there should be a hundred different
[00:44:10] types of foosball tournaments people some people will suffer because the business models will
[00:44:14] be better than others but why not I don't really have a dog in how many types of events there
[00:44:19] so like um you know ITSF will bring a product and Mary will have a product
[00:44:24] and other people will have their product the one big fallacy is this if um if one type of tournament
[00:44:31] went away there would be someone to fill the void and I'll tell you why I'm in touch with the
[00:44:36] leadership at tornado and they're about selling foosball tables and they will sell
[00:44:40] foosball tables and they will they will they are about I mean I used to think that um I
[00:44:46] used to think that tornado or valley dynamo was like a side thing that they didn't care about
[00:44:53] that didn't do a ton of money for them and that has changed that has changed over especially
[00:44:58] over the last three years okay they're they're doing very very well so they sell
[00:45:03] tournament they sell tornado tables by the thousands to that there's not players buying
[00:45:08] them those are but they're selling those on amazon consumers they got a massive consumer
[00:45:11] yeah and nice yeah and so okay guess what like someone like there will be someone to fill the void
[00:45:19] there will be someone to fill the vacuum of space and the last thing I'll say before I mean I don't
[00:45:23] want to um you know cut you off Tom I know you wanted to say something for reeds coming
[00:45:27] to the tornado he's putting the tornado world series here he's not stopping there
[00:45:32] he's got a plan that goes for years right so uh and and I believe that a rising tide
[00:45:38] raises all ships so the it's successful you're gonna be successful where you are and New York
[00:45:43] to be everyone is going to be successful when the it's successful Mary's gonna be more everyone
[00:45:48] will be more successful so get your best business plan out and take care of your customer
[00:45:52] because it's everyone's gonna be served by it anyway it's a lot no that's great that's great to
[00:45:57] hear that is I mean because at the end of the day we that's all we want is good foosball man
[00:46:02] that's it that's all I want I look I just want to go to a tournament play the best players and see
[00:46:09] how good I am that day so and then the base the base of all this is we get more choices
[00:46:15] more choices from yeah from what we've had so uh I'm looking forward to it sf by the way
[00:46:20] and but and Mark kudos to you uh for the pandemonium episode with Jim and for read
[00:46:26] and and Steve uh that was really informative and to me it it makes a difference I mean I'm
[00:46:32] I'm signed up man I'm you know I'm I'm registered I'm I'm heading down I'm going to the to the
[00:46:37] tournament dude bring your radio box dude bring anything you like I'm bringing it but I want
[00:46:42] to play I'm looking forward to it to the play because um now you know as far as the the
[00:46:48] uniform was concerned the dress code whatever you know let me you know dress in a brolap
[00:46:54] sack I still want to play foosball whatever but I don't think you'd want that but uh there'll be a
[00:47:01] test there'll be a chest to hand me down clothes if you're bringing the appropriate attire could you
[00:47:05] picture Tom and like and like some bike shorts some bike shorts and like a like a little tank top
[00:47:10] just ready to play foosball just like Bruce Lee dude yellow banana and black um like
[00:47:16] motorcycle jumps there you go frighten the kids that's always good so I benefit
[00:47:23] there you go no it's uh but yeah no it's to me I it's exciting because it's different
[00:47:28] it's something new and and who knows this could be the beginning of something really
[00:47:33] really significant when it comes to the change of you know that we need who knows
[00:47:37] helps up yeah competition competition drives the market man right right it does competition drives
[00:47:44] the market and it doesn't have to be one at the expense of the other the person or the people
[00:47:48] with the better business plans will evolve sure they'll have a better plan right no it's like
[00:47:54] it's like you said if there's if there's a if there are conflicting tournaments on one weekend
[00:47:58] people are going to choose with their wallets right yeah and and the person who doesn't get
[00:48:02] chosen is either going to go okay I need to make some changes or I mean you know they're
[00:48:08] going to figure it out they have to figure it out if you want to be successful you got to
[00:48:11] figure it out so now the format for for the itf is is really based upon the European model is it
[00:48:18] not yeah it's a they have a pretty um they're pretty organized they make subtle tweaks and they have for
[00:48:25] whatever it is 15 or 16 years but they kind of got a playbook okay they got a playbook on how they do
[00:48:30] things I mean it's swiss and they have their divisions and like every day I think I think there's
[00:48:36] a finals day I'm sad how under qualified I still have to talk about this
[00:48:42] no well but um they got a pretty regimented the way they do it it's kind of tested kind of tested and
[00:48:51] well run yeah and it's actually Friday through Monday so Friday Saturday Sunday Monday
[00:48:58] and I noticed quite a few events on Monday um I don't think there are any I don't think it's
[00:49:03] the opens but it's I think it's some some good good events nonetheless I think the total number
[00:49:09] of events what like 15 you know dude don't embarrass me right now Tom don't ask me anything about the fly
[00:49:18] we need it in front of us right now three podcasts yeah I'm gonna be touched with all the leadership
[00:49:22] I know nothing yeah okay but yeah I know some stuff no it's it's still uh you know it looks
[00:49:28] like a lot of great foosball at least five rounds per per event so yeah definitely digging
[00:49:33] actually six so six I know this okay five qualifying rounds and you get entered into
[00:49:38] the finals one of two brackets but I think what people like you know we we use terms real loosely at
[00:49:43] the last podcast I like I didn't know what the world cup was man until I went I didn't know what that
[00:49:49] was and now like if you love foosball you know I mean you're not playing for your livelihood
[00:49:54] you want to go to one world cup in your life yes whether it's in Spain or France you want to
[00:49:59] go to one world cup dude like one world cup you're just bananas dude it is absolutely crazy
[00:50:05] for read for read I don't know how much of this comes out of his personal pocket
[00:50:09] but his the camera crew setup is like 300 000 yeah just for cameras dude yeah it's sick yeah
[00:50:17] people want to but you went in one of these events you're entered into the world cup it's
[00:50:21] an option for you to go to the world cup nice and then you can play in the world cup events
[00:50:25] I mean it's pretty it's it's pretty wicked man yeah I I talked to Spocky after the last one
[00:50:33] he you know he messaged me and he was like bro he said it's like nothing you've ever seen
[00:50:37] it's insane he loved it he's like he said it's it's amazing so because like when you're in your
[00:50:45] child in our childhood we gotta look at context right in our childhood we were we came into
[00:50:51] tornado maybe the tail end of dynamo I never played dynamo and it was always about the 70s oh
[00:50:56] 70s everything's about the 70s everything's about how the golden era of foosball and then so you have
[00:51:00] these dreams all your life about how big foosball can be and then you go overseas and you see
[00:51:05] thousands of people watching in the stadium watching thousands of people like you have
[00:51:10] I mean you see like people's flags and nationalism in a positive way and and you
[00:51:17] know identity and you see teams and you see people dressed to the to the nines and they're partying
[00:51:23] afterward um and you know they're playing hard and they're working hard and playing hard um it is
[00:51:28] a whole thing man it's a spectacle it's more the athletic the athletic spectacle rather than just
[00:51:35] getting together for a competition it's it's about you know the pride of standing up there
[00:51:39] on the podium for your for your country yeah but how much how much money do I win though
[00:51:47] let's let's go back let's go back to that you win you win a gold medal bro
[00:51:52] melt it out now we want the price of gold is dropped significantly it's dropped significantly
[00:51:59] it's like it's like the it's like the biggest spend you'll have the least amount of return for an
[00:52:05] foosball experience that's all that's where foosball is mocked that's all it is
[00:52:09] yeah now look we we have been understanding this for Laurel that his big sponsor that
[00:52:15] Freed got is a gold company and that's what this golden ticket is and the people who win this
[00:52:20] I win I don't know how the whole thing shakes out but you win a golden ticket and yeah golden
[00:52:25] and then you're playing for 24,000 I think you're playing for a slice of 24,000 dollars now
[00:52:29] they think the money will grow but the sponsor is putting out money for a prize and I think
[00:52:35] cool you know let me tell you one more other thing Freed's got something going on and I
[00:52:39] probably I'm maybe even speaking at a turn I probably shouldn't be saying this I don't know
[00:52:43] but why not here's a hot take I won't tell you I don't even know what that means hot take
[00:52:49] for read for read has got something going on because we had an we had an ongoing dialogue
[00:52:56] about image rights and so inside foos image rights and foosball tv image rights and
[00:53:01] and there's been a conversation that got finalized but he's he doesn't tell so
[00:53:06] Freed's a serious businessman I think he's maybe the wealthiest man in all his entire city
[00:53:11] and he doesn't goof around he's a serious I mean the last the first podcast we had he was at the
[00:53:17] Olympic Committee meetings he's not goofing around he's putting a lot into this but he's got
[00:53:22] something going he doesn't show all his cards ever right so he's got something going on and it's
[00:53:27] it's at least to at least a bigger brighter things for foosball globally and I think
[00:53:32] the one here's the other thing that just had this conversation with somebody like
[00:53:36] we talk we you and I us like on our podcast and we talk about real local real small stuff which
[00:53:42] is great it's gratifying we talk we talk about like promotions and we talk about entry fees
[00:53:48] for each customer at the end of the day it's not me it's not you it's not Tom his customer
[00:53:53] is big money but he wants to bring in to blow foosball up so like you know like yeah you
[00:53:58] know we talk about streaming to like 600 people you got a stream to tens of you got a stream
[00:54:03] to 100,000 people we're talking about like entry fees from like 400 500 people free to care less
[00:54:09] about entry fees from 400 people he's out there trying to like um he's out there trying
[00:54:13] to plant a flag that globalizes foosball in ways that so it's just there's just levels to this
[00:54:20] you know it's uh there's there's some place somewhere somehow there's a place for for foosball
[00:54:25] to belong I mean it's it's it's just it's so often dismissed just because well I think Mark the
[00:54:33] point that you made was you know some of your your business friends said hey you took this toy and
[00:54:38] turned it into a into a sport right it's that's what a lot of people's attitude it's just a toy I
[00:54:46] was selling foosball when I was selling foosball at a high level like I don't know like two years
[00:54:51] ago and I was in these I was giving presentations just to kind of summate this the Thunderdome was
[00:54:57] never meant to be a profit a profit center tournament it was meant to be recorded episodic
[00:55:04] to sell to ESPN for advertising dollars so not unlike what Joe Hesling it did so you my my my
[00:55:11] end game was something called the Iron Man Invitational I had a bunch of masters signed
[00:55:14] up already and get sponsorship money which I got and then you put you infuse it now you
[00:55:19] record an episodic kind of three-day event that prongs one champion for $50,000 and you record it
[00:55:25] you sell to ESPN now that was it but when I was out selling it to angel investors one of the things
[00:55:29] was um you turned a how did you get how did you I'm not going to use some of the language that
[00:55:33] you use how did you how did you um uh expletive turn this toy into a sport and so there's a
[00:55:41] there's a you have to you have to um humanize the people and humanize the game and draw and
[00:55:47] create theatrics and drama around it or people on the outside they don't get it yeah yeah it's a story
[00:55:52] it's a story you gotta tell the story um do you want to share any more comments here because I have one
[00:55:56] more that I wanted to share that was on the positive side if you don't mind I mean I'm okay
[00:56:02] what I want to what I want to know is how's Mark gonna have an Iron Man without me I mean
[00:56:06] you need personalities especially for TV you're the dude you're the dude I'm just saying
[00:56:13] Mark you know I'm not gonna say it anyway all right go ahead this tough kid he's tough kid from
[00:56:18] Fall River Fall River Massachusetts he's gonna make your life miserable he's stepping I'm not
[00:56:23] gonna do that no no I wouldn't do that no no no no no no no but something you know anyway go ahead
[00:56:29] Tom meet the comment guys it's a point by point thing and somebody who had also written earlier
[00:56:34] that they they hate the the idea as a viewer but they said there's some other pros to the
[00:56:40] side of this this format number one the promoter saves the risk of 30 extra minutes times the number
[00:56:48] of events if all events were to go to a second set you're uh pardon the expression EFT on time
[00:56:57] number two for players King seat not having to wait all day and play at some weird time in
[00:57:03] the middle of the night late hours mean no streaming and number three viewers stream and
[00:57:13] live will be able to watch all the finals at a specific time so I think those are all great
[00:57:19] benefits to the championship format there benefits there benefits in the sense that like
[00:57:25] their benefits but like seriously like I cannot have stress enough fuzers think that a thousand
[00:57:30] people watching your stream is some like thing that's laughable you need tens of thousands of
[00:57:37] people watch the foosball tv the Germans have front page twitch um front page twitch relationship
[00:57:43] and they immediately get 30 000 people like off the top because it's a mean so like and and they're
[00:57:48] having a hard time monetizing like like so to really care for me as a business person I can't
[00:57:55] really care about getting a thousand people to watch a stream it doesn't pay the bills doesn't
[00:58:00] even sniff paying the bills that's not even close I mean again from a number standpoint right globally
[00:58:06] there's eight billion people in this planet if you get a thousand people to watch your stream
[00:58:09] that's literally that's nothing so that's maybe as well be zero like the neighbors hanging out
[00:58:14] yeah yeah yeah no it's it's uh it's a quandary it's it's not an easy thing to solve and I think
[00:58:21] the idea of of mixing American ideas with with European ingenuity
[00:58:28] something good could could come from that there's no doubt about it you know let's build a drama
[00:58:33] let's make let's write the story one two we're three weeks away from this itf event yes so
[00:58:42] hey mac you want to come back on after this thing and talk about it we can see how it goes I mean
[00:58:47] Tom's gonna be there I can't yeah I can't go uh you know my wife
[00:59:00] Tom you're too light in the pants to talk to me like that guy I'm just saying
[00:59:06] I take chances you know yeah I'm like two of you Tom I gotta go you told me you're losing your
[00:59:14] voice I'm so uh but no I mean you know I would have loved to have gone I really would look again
[00:59:21] I would have loved to have gone but you know marital things and then nationals get moved to Louisiana
[00:59:27] just it made my decision to go to nationals yeah New Orleans yeah there's gonna be another one man
[00:59:33] and those I think there's probably gonna be at least five before I go about giving up
[00:59:37] cool and I'm gonna go I'm gonna hit them I am it's who's I love it so look man I'm glad
[00:59:43] you jumped on I really am you broken like a like a thief if it was my house what a shot
[00:59:53] a second dude I would have shot you so bad my dog my dog would have bit you then I would have shot
[01:00:01] I got co-workers here in Iowa that are like hoping to god someone breaks in
[01:00:05] and oh yeah we fantasize about that stuff yeah we fantasize about it oh yeah dude come to Alabama
[01:00:12] come to Alabama it's way worse oh dude oh my god you have no idea oh man oh yeah my dog you come
[01:00:20] through my door dude my dog will just grab you and I'll just hold them hold them I'll just shoot
[01:00:25] you and but I'm coming into your house play foosball man uh huh I'm coming to your house to
[01:00:31] play foosball you know I see your your table oh yeah no yeah I got a rainbow and that table back
[01:00:38] there has not been played besides my kids he's dirty oh that one yeah that was that it was molasses
[01:00:44] dude that table is molasses molasses do something about it man wow Mark doesn't need to practice
[01:00:52] Mark just Mark just shows up in Wednesday doesn't need to practice all right all right
[01:00:56] foosball foosball is easy for Mark so I'm horrible I couldn't even admit your event right now
[01:01:02] so first of all we've had more comments tonight on our twitch tv feed than we have had had in
[01:01:09] quite some time and I had a feeling about that because it's important people want to know
[01:01:14] what's what's happening with this thing and championship format we you know with the poll
[01:01:18] that was taken on on the foosball players union uh facebook page go there no see it
[01:01:25] look at it and you get you get the results pretty quickly but we do appreciate you know
[01:01:31] you're chiming in because this is this is important it's something everybody is worried about
[01:01:36] we want to play foosball but we also want to enjoy the the sport we want to you know be a part
[01:01:40] of it so any concluding things you guys want to toss out there that would that would uh would be
[01:01:48] the positive negative otherwise Mark you know you guys got to get the last word I'm the guest
[01:01:55] I'll go first because you guys got to close the show okay I'll just say that I like I'll
[01:02:00] like I'll say I'm reiterating this I haven't played in the format I can imagine it I love
[01:02:06] when people do new things I hate to I hate to you know bruise on things that I haven't tried
[01:02:12] in that um that uh that people try to do something new just what I've heard and feedback from a lot of
[01:02:18] friends I've had for a long time it needs that format needs to evolve it needs to change and don't
[01:02:24] do it for streaming for crying out loud yeah if you can get actual media there and it's going to
[01:02:29] drive revenues but you you have to weigh that against the the prospect of losing your
[01:02:34] customer base so you got to find a way to be creative and elevate the um elevate the idea
[01:02:40] so people your your customers are happy that's all right and thanks for having me yeah well thanks
[01:02:47] for just popping out now uh so Randy what about you what would you like to finish with uh no I had
[01:02:54] a good time um you know for any players listening um I mean I don't really have much to say I talk
[01:03:04] the whole damn time I ain't got nothing to say it was it was good I'm glad Mark showed up
[01:03:09] you know I'd really I just I just want I just want to see foosball grow as a whole look man
[01:03:14] I'm getting older I'm breaking down I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to play
[01:03:18] I just I just want to play good foosball and anybody who's going to give me the opportunity
[01:03:22] to do that I'm going to support them so um you know whether it's for reading the ITSF
[01:03:27] Mary in the IFP or it's grassroots foosball I'm going to do my best to support everybody
[01:03:32] and I'm just thankful when I get to play so uh you know again I'm thankful for any platform
[01:03:37] this platform is great Tom I always thank you for allowing me to be a part of it so uh I had fun
[01:03:42] yeah and uh yeah man well look forward to the next one so I think you know we can safely say that
[01:03:48] we're we're all fans we all want this this this thing called foosball to succeed and whatever it
[01:03:54] takes you know whatever we got to do uh you know forcing Randy to play foosball you know when
[01:03:59] he doesn't want to play maybe we'll we'll stop there but anyway we're forcing Mark to practice
[01:04:06] we won't we'll stop there maybe that's not gonna happen that's not gonna happen yeah yeah
[01:04:11] but uh no it's in all honesty here I gotta say man this this is important because and people are
[01:04:17] passionate so 200 comments about one idea called championship format 200 comments
[01:04:24] in in less than a weekend so that clearly people care so yeah oh this is the last thing I want to
[01:04:30] say Kenneth Dale I like you buddy quit being a troll on the internet well said well said okay
[01:04:42] in his defense he got trolled by multiple people I know he was strong word it is like you know
[01:04:48] Jim and I made a point out of saying he's not a master because he was the symbol
[01:04:53] yes and then Billy's taking shots at him I think Kenneth Dale is great I stand by the things I said
[01:04:59] I've said things in a theatrical way to be entertaining I uh I can't say I mean I wish it
[01:05:05] wasn't I wish he wasn't the focal point but he is the poster child now for what master is or is not
[01:05:11] right and that was a discussion we had a few episodes ago especially you know and and Ken was that
[01:05:17] was part of the conversation not personally but he was he was the subject of the conversation
[01:05:22] he was the subject but uh
[01:05:26] but uh yeah and I and Ken is a great guy he spent some time with us at the TKO and it was a great
[01:05:32] guest so you know we we hope for Kenny to make it you know to to an open finals real soon man I
[01:05:39] think that you know it's it's it's what comes down to desire how much do you desire how much
[01:05:44] more do you want to win from the next guy yeah it's all I'm gonna say about that yeah well episode 206
[01:05:53] yeah not bad not bad guys thanks so much for being here Mark and Randy we're back again next week
[01:06:00] and who knows what we'll be doing then uh anybody could stop by but uh thanks for yeah
[01:06:06] and thanks again for tuning in on twitch tv tonight we have foostalk live tournament beat
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